Piers Morgan with Lisa Nandy on Good Morning Britain

[musicposy]

He’s trying to push Lisa Nandy as to whether any man can self identify and compete in woman’s sports. He’s actually trying to talk some sense and saying it’s unfair to woman’s rights. Making really good points about trans rights overriding woman’s rights.
She will not give a straight answer to anything.

History told to children has always had a 'strong narrative bias'.
History textbooks & syllabi are a fascinating insight into the times they were published.

History told to children has always had a 'strong narrative bias'.

Yes, however we are talking about young adults, and films are not typically as transparent as texts, if for no other reason than they are processed differently in the brain.

You can speak to university graduates now who have no concept of how historians actually work, or basic outlines of history, and they especially are unaware that people could think about things from an entirely different perspective.

There are many significant impacts from the way education has been delivered differently. I would argue that the amount that people (of all generations) read & the nature of the texts they rely on is particularly relevent.
People today though also have access to viewpoints/evidence from other countries/perspectives & are better able to witness the bias of constructed narratives in a way previous generations would not.

R0wantrees

When I was at secondary school in the early seventies, we were forced to listen to a very different version of history about the slaughter of the indigenous people of North America. We were told that they were violent savages who didn't believe in God. We didn't learn anything about slavery, the long, murderous trips by ship across the Atlantic from Africa, the cotton plantations etc.
I fear that today's children are being fed another dose of extreme propaganda.

andy Absolutely
The ongoing failure to recognise the power & nature of propaganda is dangerous. Same as always.

The vast majority of people in the UK/US etc still have little knowledge of Russia's Great Patriotic War (also known as WWII) regardless whether they've read books or watched films.

It was unbelievable to watch

I saw some of that. Much as I dislike Piers Morgan, he was right to ask questions. I'd never heard of Lisa Nandy before but she did squirm and I agree she couldn't give a straight answer.

I wish Susanna Reid would do it. More powerful if it came from her.
Too many reasons to mix PM's arguments with his weird Meghan Markle obsession and other odd things he says.

It doesn't help when we have expensively educated private school and Oxford PMs who say the USA is "Our Oldest Ally," the absolute exact reverse is the case, and that the USA "saved us in 1940" as Cameron with his First in PPE thinks.

gosh can you imagine Lisa Nandy playing taboo... describe trans rights without saying...

Problematic
Less heat more light
Strawman
There’s a child in my constituency
I’ve worked in women’s refuges
Set up a commission
Assigned at birth

You forgot "My starting point is transwomen are women"...

A friend posted on Facebook that Lisa rocked this, and Piers is a frightful bully.

Is it really possible to watch that clip and believe that? And conclude that Piers is at fault and not that a person standing for high political office ought to be able to handle a bully? I’m quite boggled.

They didn’t only see the edited twitter version did they?

If you believe in 100 genders, you are out of touch with reality. So yeah, someone like that could watch the interview and think Nandy killed it.

Is it really possible to watch that clip and believe that? And conclude that Piers is at fault and not that a person standing for high political office ought to be able to handle a bully? I’m quite boggled.

Confirmation bias is very powerful.

People today though also have access to viewpoints/evidence from other countries/perspectives & are better able to witness the bias of constructed narratives in a way previous generations would not.

It seems like that should be true, but in my experience it isn't. Or - maybe it is that they conclude all the narratives are false and that leaves them open to believing all kinds of bonkers stuff?

They didn’t only see the edited twitter version did they?

Possibly, I dunno to be honest.

I don’t think it’s confirmation bias, or not from a trans ally perspective anyway, as this friend hasn’t said a great deal on that topic either way. I think it could just be a result of a general piersphobia, and her being a labour voter of decades standing, actually. She’s Predisposed to think he’s a twat (and I get that, he might be right on this, but he is a twat), and labour are great (she loves LOJ and Corbyn).

I actually felt quite sorry for Lisa Nandy (yes I am a numpty) because I watched as the other two men and two women left her to PM's relentless questioning.

It felt like bullying almost because she was incapable of answering him, and he knew it. If she said yes, put the toughest ever male boxer in the ring with a woman she would look like a cruel, callous, ridiculous person, but if she said actually don't do that because he's male she would be letting down some 'side' which she was supporting.

In another venue Nandy said she was supporting a young girl going through the gender recognition act. Nandy said that young person would not hear anything from her that would give her any idea that she has anything other than her complete and utter compassion and support.

starting at 4:33

So I think her care for one person and her fear of being labelled 'transphobic' has left her in a very cold place where she has to pretend there isn't a really logical and simple reply for why males should not be competing against females.

I admire her for caring for one person but as a potential leader of a party she needs to see the bigger picture, and she simply does not, IMHO.

My only uncertainty here is whether she really does know why males should not be competing against females.

I admire her for caring for one person

What she is doing is caring.

I actually felt quite sorry for Lisa Nandy (yes I am a numpty) because I watched as the other two men and two women left her to PM's relentless questioning

It was only relentless Cos despite ample warning and ample time to get even a half coherent answer together with regards to these questions, she went on totally unprepared and treating the co hosts and the guests and the entire british public as absolute dickheads incapable of seeing her pathetic diversion tactics for exactly what they were. How dare she go on tv and talk to us all like we are too stupid to notice shes refusing to answer the question. How dare she go on tv and expect us to accept being screwed over with our rights in order to be kind to one kid we haven't even met and have mo idea if they even exist.

You cant treat the public like that then play the victim... I.mean seriously

In my opinion she had an easy out, Italiangreyhound and that was to say, no it's not fair and that's why we will have rules about inclusion.

This immediately gets the most damaging question off the table and gets you into a technical discussion about rules. Easier to obfuscate and saying "rules about inclusion" would allow her to make it clear to the trans activists that her default position is to include males who identify as trans, not exclude them.

However, I fear that she is an adherent to the extremist fringe of this ideology, which rejects any notion of sex-based differences and therefore any notion that males as a class have a physiological advantage over females as a class.

SarahTancredi "It was only relentless Cos despite ample warning and ample time to get even a half coherent answer together with regards to these questions, she went on totally unprepared and treating the co hosts and the guests and the entire british public as absolute dickheads incapable of seeing her pathetic diversion tactics for exactly what they were."

Yes, i 100% agree, I said I was a numpty!

We all saw her refusing to answer the question. It was very stupid of her. Better to simply say I can't or won't answer it, at least that would have been honest!

It felt like bullying almost because she was incapable of answering him, and he knew it

I might agree with you if it was a general member of the public, but I really don’t think that’s bullying when putting a question to a politician who wants to be leader of the country and influence policy.
It might be uncomfortable to watch, but all it serves to highlight is she is not fit for the position.

Even calling it bullying feeds into her victim mentality, that people are being unkind, and not that she’s not fit for office.

"You cant treat the public like that then play the victim"

forgetting that you are speaking to the public and not just the interviewer is the biggest mistake a politician can make and she made it. PM lulled her into it, he acts the arse as he knows how the game works, she was too stupid to realise.

I said I was a numpty!

That's the kind of female socialisation aspect shes relying on

The men are happy to let her get on with it cos it doesnt affect them, they like to see women make arses of themselves and they are thrilled it's now at the point where they could drop their pants and shit on the studio floor in front of millions of people and still come across as more credible.