Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Suzanne Moore Guardian - new column

80 replies

Newuser123123 · 10/03/2020 07:22

Despite significant protest :
I wish everyone raw strength, however they identify

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/10/i-wish-everyone-strength-however-they-identify-suzanne-moore?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

OP posts:
VeniVidiVoxi · 10/03/2020 07:35

I just read the article and came here to comment as the graun isn't brave enough to open comments.

Suzanne Moore has said what I think so much more eloquently than I could, hence she's the pro writer and I'm not. So glad that she's sharing her "lived experience". I think we spend so long concealing these things that people who don't experience them don't have a chance at empathy because they just don't get it. Breaking some female taboos could go a long way to helping people realise it's not just fun, games and fancy shoes being a woman. Although it is for some. Argh. I refer back to Suzanne.

dianebrewster · 10/03/2020 07:41

I live that she quotes Butler back to them. She's unleashed now I think, I just hope the Guardian remains brave enough to keep publishing her.

janeskettle · 10/03/2020 07:46

Glad to see her column!

LexMitior · 10/03/2020 08:18

Yes I thought it was good. Shows that the Guardian has still just about remembered it is supposed to have a diversity of views as an actual newspaper.

NotBadConsidering · 10/03/2020 09:17

Good on her, seems she still has a job. For now.

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 10/03/2020 09:25

Well done, Suzanne.

Sheheshee · 10/03/2020 09:28

She’s come back from that weekend in Amsterdam fighting. Good. I sense a scintilla of career-saving accommodation in the ‘you do you - whatevs’ but the message is loud and clear ‘don’t try and shut this woman up fuckers!!’ Grin Love her. The spirit of Deborah Orr lives on. A wise decision by The Guardian.

FlockofGulls · 10/03/2020 09:34

Yes, I'm really missing Deborah Orr. She called a spade a fucking shovel when it was needed.

NotAssigned · 10/03/2020 09:34

Shame about the cis and I'm not sure the average reader will have a scooby what she is on about.

Al1Langdownthecleghole · 10/03/2020 09:46

Thank You Suzanne. Don't let them grind you down.

StandUpStraight · 10/03/2020 09:46

NotAssigned I agree. I’m not really sure what she’s saying, to be honest. Those who want to read it as a climb down probably have adequate ammunition.

Kit19 · 10/03/2020 09:49

I have to be honest, Ive no idea what she's on about really. It just feels like a massive word salad and is already being called a climb down on twitter

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/03/2020 09:51

Those who want to read it as a climb down probably have adequate ammunition.

Without an abject, grovelling apology, TRAs aren't going to read it as a climb down. They will direct their ire towards the Guardian for publishing her without said apology.

Floisme · 10/03/2020 09:52

Going by what she was tweeting about her Amsterdam trip, its hardly surprising if it's not her sharpest piece ever. I'm mostly just relieved to see she's still writing and that the Guardian are still publishing.

zanahoria · 10/03/2020 09:56

Debaroh Orr wrote some right crap

" That's why it's so awful to talk of trans women as men who have been castrated. Such people are women who have had the biological misfortune to have been born with bodies that are out of kilter with the much more complex biology of their female minds. That too, is why the trans community prefers people not to talk of being biologically or born female as opposed to trans female. Trans people are biologically or born female, but with detail of the flesh that traduces their ability to be physically and socially accepted for what they are"

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/19/feminism-trans-women-female-enough

jadefinch · 10/03/2020 09:59

I don't think that's Suzanne's best article but I'm v pleased she's not been cancelled

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 10/03/2020 10:02

I struggled to read some of it, feeling she may have written it while high in Amsterdam this weekend.

But the point is clear. Perform gender if you want to, but a female body does female things regardless, so stop trying to pretend sex doesn't matter.

Justhadathought · 10/03/2020 10:02

NotAssigned I agree. I’m not really sure what she’s saying, to be honest. Those who want to read it as a climb down probably have adequate ammunition

Yes, I'm not sure either.....it comes across as more of a stream of consciousness type piece, written on the back of a tumultuous weekend.

Using Judith butler quotes seems like an attempt to appease, to show you know your queer theory........suggesting that perhaps sex is not real - but just as much a construct as gender.......

But then ends with the body - which is where it all begins......and which is what makes you the variety of human being that is known as 'a woman'. An adult human female.

Justhadathought · 10/03/2020 10:05

I don't think that's Suzanne's best article but I'm v pleased she's not been cancelled

It's not really an article......it's a stream of consciousness. I suspect that Katherine Viner wanted to soothe frayed nerves......the Guardian has, rightly, being getting it in the neck from all quarters. Suzanne, like anyone subject to on-line abuse just wants her sanity back and to feel normal again.

I'd prefer it be her last piece for that paper.

Justhadathought · 10/03/2020 10:08

So glad that she's sharing her "lived experience". I think we spend so long concealing these things that people who don't experience them don't have a chance at empathy because they just don't get it

My experience is that most trans/ allies don't give a flying fuck about women's lived experiences, as they relate to their female body, and in their position as women in our society. They really don't. In fact, quite the opposite. Contempt.

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 10/03/2020 10:10

zana Deborah Orr changed her position on whether transwomen were women after she wrote that.

I remember a tweet where she said that she'd been pushed too far by Paris Lee's to take a completely anti-women stance when Paris told her she had to choose between women and transwomen, and she said she chose women.

TulipsTulipsTulips · 10/03/2020 10:10

There is a petition to support her. Please sign and share it: chng.it/sqXpYpV5hW

Qcng · 10/03/2020 10:12

It's a very raw bloodied description of her experience as a woman, and some of it made me physically wince. I like the phrase "female drag" when referring to gender.

But, yeah most people (not feminists) will just think she's barking. Especially those who conflate the words sex and gender.

The Guardian has a hell of a lot of back tracking to do, and they can't win me back with an article like that.

Floisme · 10/03/2020 10:12

Suzanne Moore didn't so much stick her head above the parapet as climb to the top and dance. I'm not going to start having a pop at her because a week later she's used some words I don't like.
She's always been a bit unpredictable and if you're going to start setting her a purity test I will tell you now, she won't pass. It's why she's such an interesting voice.

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 10/03/2020 10:13

The moment I decided I was done was when I suggested to Paris Lees that some of women's concerns did need to be addressed and she told me: "You're either with us or against us." So, here I am. Where Paris insisted I should be.
I had to choose, she said. Women or trans women. I chose women.

Deborah Orr (RIP) tweet.

Swipe left for the next trending thread