8 year old boy wants to change with the girls

[FairytaleofBykerGrove]

I’ve been informed that a boy in my daughters class ‘feels like a girl’. He’s been wearing dresses to school for a while (fine) and now wants to change with the girls for swimming. Apparently the children will all accept it no problem and they’d like the parents to do the same. He will be under a poncho towel so we don’t have to worry about his privacy(?) I am really very unhappy with this. Which is why I’m up at 3 in the morning. The other parents I’ve spoken to don’t seem to care either way. I can’t understand it at all. Do you have any advice for me?

Little girls should not be forced to be naked in front of little boys just because the boy demands it. #nodebate

I think in 20 years' time people are going to look back on comments about how trans people shouldn't be allowed in certain bathrooms with disdain,

I don’t think there is enough glue to sniff for the majority of adults to ever agree that an 8 year old boy belongs in the girls swim change due to the gendery thoughts in his head.

Erm no

We know that statistically men are a risk to women and children

And that there is no test of being trans, you just say, I'm a woman

Soooo can't you put two and two together?!

arraye
As a “cis lesbian”, you appear to be saying there is no difference between trans women and natal women, do you have sex with “lesbian” trans women? If you don’t, why not? You are telling us they’re the same.

I’ve also been made aware that some trans women after their sex change consider themselves to be “cis”. Is this the case for you.

No we are not. You are jumping to conclusions. We are not assuming all transwomen are rapists and I am getting annoyed at deliberate misinterpretation

We are assuming that as a population transwomen commit offences at the same rate as men.

arraye
It takes a certain kind of person to try and dictate to a female child that they have no right to safety, dignity and privacy, and to use accusations of homophobia to support this stance. And on IWD. Have you no shame. On behalf of my daughter, whose right to privacy, safety and dignity I will always defend, fuck off.

This is the thing that puts rapists with functional dicks locked in with women in prison.

Go you! Nice job.

Loving how almost everyone in this thread is rehashing the same talking points used against gay people in the 80s

False analogy...albeit it one endlessly trotted out by people who don't really want to think through for themselves.

Gay people were not requesting anything other than the right to freely love who they loved. They were not seeking to claim they were another sex; nor that they had been born in the wrong body; and most importantly for us here, gay men were not demanding unfettered access to intimate female spaces, services and sports. Simply equal civil rights.

The TRA agenda is for additiona civil rights to everyone else...and also, more profoundly, to impose an ideology on an unwilling population withoutr their consent.

Why don't you campaign for third spaces? Is it that you don't think women are real, or have real and distinct needs and concerns?

60-80% of gender confused children desist at puberty anyway

¯\(ツ)/¯

Bullshit was it assumed all gay people were predatory. No one presumes all trans people to predatory either. We are just going by statistics.

I think in 20 years time people will look back with horror that we allowed small children to be subjected to such a fucked up thought process. Hormones, surgery, etc.

What is wrong with telling an 8yo boy who likes wearing dresses that it’s ok for boys to wear dresses? Why aren’t we instilling such children with confidence and the knowledge that there’s no place for gender stereotypes. Instead such kids are being told they are the opposite sex (biologically impossible) and being set down the route of pain and medical treatment. Never mind the good chance that it’s a passing phase.

Swim England guidance was that adult men with a trans ID should use female changing, which is often communal (swim clubs at schools).

Yep awesome plan.

No we are not. You are jumping to conclusions

Exactly...the middle section - the bit where you logically follow through and consider all angles...is missing.

I don’t remember when gay men were told to change with the woman because err why again? Because hereto men would be unkind? Because they fancied blokes like women (except lesbians) do?

I’m late forties and there was no campaign to keep lesbians out of women’s toilets or changing rooms.

Again, what is wrong with a boy who looks like a boy changing with other boys who look like boys? What is the threat from the other boys? And how do we know they’re all boys anyway? Just because they haven’t disclosed yet.

But again, why are the rest of the boys seen as so threatening?

Telling an 8 year old boy that a liking for dresses means he must be a girl IS homophobia

So ayearr are you happy to be penetrated by a female penis?

Worried I think because

Males are not accepting of non conformity

And it's too much effort/ not something people want to try to change

This is a man problem. Being put on women. And little girls.

Hi arraye Do you think all male trans people under the Stonewall umbrella should be allowed in the women’s changing rooms, or just some of the categories?

Gay people fought for their right to live their lives with the same rights as straight ppl not to have additional rights

Most TW retain both their genitalia & sexual attraction to women so no I’m not going to be fine getting naked in front of them

My point is, people feared gay people being in their changing rooms.

Ridiculous comparison. This is about sex segregation, and no one is suggesting that all males should be in all female spaces and there should be no sex segregation. There is a small faction of politics arguing that some males should be allowed in and females are mean for wanting privacy, dignity and safeguarding.

You're arguing to remove the rights of eight year old little girls to privacy and dignity. You're arguing to teach eight year old little girls that their feelings and needs and rights mean nothing because one little boy's means everything. He doesn't have to think about anyone else or tolerate any discomfort, but they do. Why? Because they had the bad luck to be born with female biology.

You're fooling no one, however you dress it up it's male supremacy. It's not giving a fuck about children if they're female. It's seeing eight year old little girls as a servant class. FGS be 'kind'.

As someone, who became an adult in the 80’s I certainly don’t remember any lesbophobia.

Then you were very lucky. A gay friend of mine who went to boarding school in the 1990s ended up getting a room to herself and was told to change in the toilets while the other girls used the changing rooms because the school felt it was "inappropriate" for her to be around naked girls.

In my first job (also in the 1990s) I had a member of staff put in a complaint to my boss about my using the same changing room as her because she wasn't comfortable. She knew I had a girlfriend and so said she'd never be able to get changed, because I might be looking at her. The whole thing turned into a total cluster fuck and as I was a temp and she had been there for ages I got fired.

I've heard a lot more mean comments about women who date women, but that's two examples of specific changing room drama.

I'm not really here to get into a fight about trans stuff, but people claiming that lesbians have never faced discrimination around changing rooms etc are talking shit.

Of course you all assume transwomen are predatory, because you all assume men are predatory, and you don't see the difference between transwomen and men, and don't respect transwomen are women. Hence the constant misgendering, I've yet to see anyone in this thread refer to this child as a "she".

Its bizarre to suggest that women have had a fear of lesbians in the past, on the level as fear of men

In a job I had many years ago as a 20 something, I used to have customer 1 on 1 meetings. One of my customers was a lesbian. A couple of the Male managers (separately) suggested that I might like them to sit in on the meeting as I would probably be uncomfortable. I was non plussed. It literally didn't occur to me to feel uncomfortable , so I turned them both down.

I also had several male customers that were actually intimidating. Those male managers never offered to sit in on my meetings with those guys. I instinctively knew where I was most at risk, and it wasnt from the lady.

But they aren't men.

Men have always said lesbians are like men, to insult them. And because they can't comprehend sexuality outside of a male perspective.

Now we have this again. If you let lesbians in you have to let men in. This is a terrible twist on what happened in the past.

My point is you are assuming all trans people are predatory. Like how it was assumed all gay people are predatory

Not at all......you should educate yourself more widely. When you just exist on twitter and in narrow circles you do not get exposed to a full range of views.

This is about the needs and requirements of women; needs and requirements which are distinct because of their sex. Sex is real - and women and girls have the right to dignity privacy andcomfort in certain circumstances. Indeed, this is enshrined in law. One cannot change sex.

Why don't you campaign for 'third spaces' rather than seeking to colonise and remove the spaces that women and girls value and require?

and on the issue of predatory males identifying as women, there are plenty of them out there.....Self ID would only make this more prevalent.

Show you care and respect for women....campaign for third spaces; in the same way that women have campaigned for, and set up, their own.