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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

8 year old boy wants to change with the girls

749 replies

FairytaleofBykerGrove · 06/03/2020 02:45

I’ve been informed that a boy in my daughters class ‘feels like a girl’. He’s been wearing dresses to school for a while (fine) and now wants to change with the girls for swimming. Apparently the children will all accept it no problem and they’d like the parents to do the same. He will be under a poncho towel so we don’t have to worry about his privacy(?) I am really very unhappy with this. Which is why I’m up at 3 in the morning. The other parents I’ve spoken to don’t seem to care either way. I can’t understand it at all. Do you have any advice for me?

OP posts:
Thinkingabout1t · 08/03/2020 15:51

This isn't good for anyone concerned. Both girls and boys are being taught that a boy’s wishes aree important than the needs and legal rights of a whole classful of girls.

Thinkingabout1t · 08/03/2020 15:52

are MORE important

Durgasarrow · 08/03/2020 18:15

I applaud the OP for raising the alarm. And although I'm glad at least one other person agrees with her, I don't even think that is necessary. What she wants for her child should be just as important as what the boy's parents want for theirs. Not only that, but fairness demands that whatever standard of behavior goes on in the girl's changing room should be applied to all the members of that room. No nudity for girls and covering for boys.

Jaxhog · 08/03/2020 18:34

Isn't it interesting that the response from a male is 'its ok', but the responses from 2 females are 'it isn't ok'?

Lamahaha · 08/03/2020 18:56

Why is this nonsense being indulged these days? He’s a boy, he doesn’t go into the girls changing room. There was a time he would be told this fairly robustly, and there’d be no more to be said on the matter.
No hand wringing and wondering were you doing the right thing?
No wonder kids are so confused these days, when literally everything is available to them, if they could only choose...

You know, I've always been suspicious of the modern child-rearing trend to tell children they can be anything they want to be. Prioritising "want". Because it's simply not true. It's giving them the false idea that all their wishes can come true, that their desires are the leading motivation for their lives and that adults are there to cater for these desires.

I believe that children need to know there are limits to the fulfillment of their desires; they need to know how to deal with failure and to learn to develop confidence that does not come from any external circumstance, but from within, from an inner sense of worth.

Telling a child they can do anything, be anything, that what they want is the guiding principle in life, is a pathway to deep disappointment and unhappiness.

For me, raising my own kids, it was always "do your very best". It's simply not true that everyone can be anything they want to be. But I see it all over the place, as some kind of maxim for success.

We all have boundaries as to what we can achieve or be. Every one of us. The quote above is so very basic, yet it's a conventional wisdom that has gone out of date.

midgebabe · 08/03/2020 18:57

It's the child aspect of the American dream where if you fail, it's your fault

arraye · 08/03/2020 19:06

Loving how almost everyone in this thread is rehashing the same talking points used against gay people in the 80s.

"I would be uncomfortable with lesbians in my changing rooms! They'll hit on me and harass me!"

FrogsFrogs · 08/03/2020 19:09

Drawing a parallel between lesbians and men, with sex offending, is both sexist and lesbophobic.

DuLANGDuLANGDuLANG · 08/03/2020 19:09

Since when did gay boys ask to see little girls naked arraye?

You’ve not thought this through, have you?

arraye · 08/03/2020 19:10

I mean, did people not use this exact argument against gay men?

arraye · 08/03/2020 19:11

I'm a cis woman and a lesbian but sure, I'm a sexist lesbophobic.

FrogsFrogs · 08/03/2020 19:11

You're taking about lesbians.

Gay men shouldn't be in with the women either, in these types of situations.

mummmy2017 · 08/03/2020 19:12

Gay men have Never tried to change in the female changing rooms.

arraye · 08/03/2020 19:13

My point is, people feared gay people being in their changing rooms. Men feared gay men, women feared gay women.

This was because of homophobia, and not because of any logical, rational, reasonable reason.

There is absolutely a parallel that can be drawn against "I fear trans people in my changing rooms" and "I fear gay people in my changing rooms"

midgebabe · 08/03/2020 19:14

The arguments supporting the trans position are exactly the arguments used to put women down for centuries.

There is a woman's brain ( that's weak and pathetic)

There are things that women are just naturally interested in which make them different to men( be it caring for others, and if they like doing that we don't need to pay them , or wearing makeup which shows how trivial and shallow they are )

And a somewhat unhealthy interest in accessing women's safe spaces , removing their bodily autonomy , again, something that has happened for generations

FrogsFrogs · 08/03/2020 19:15

Yes, you are implying that males are no more risk to females when it comes to sex offences, than lesbians. So we should let males in.

This is not true. Women, irrespective of sexuality, are a tiny percentage of sex offenders. Telling women they must let men in or they are bigots is a dick move (pardon the pun).

Tell me in what way you see lesbians as being the same as men, such that if women are ok with lesbians when getting undressed they must let men in too?

DuLANGDuLANGDuLANG · 08/03/2020 19:15

I mean, did people not use this exact argument against gay men

No. Because no one suggested gay men, who have Male bodies, should be allowed to change with people with female bodies.

Sex segregated changing is on the basis of body type. Penis people in one, vulva people in the other.
Sexual orientation doesn’t come into it.

Especially not for children.

Batshittery abounds here

stillathing · 08/03/2020 19:15

It's weird, the only time I've ever come across the suggestion that women feel generally sexually threatened by lesbians has been on social media, as a weak attempt to support the belief that humans can change sex.

Sexual aggression and entitlement seems to be a trait of male socialisation. Coupled with the greater strength that being male confers.

WorriedAcademic · 08/03/2020 19:17

There is absolutely a parallel that can be drawn against "I fear trans people in my changing rooms" and "I fear gay people in my changing rooms"

Total bollocks. How about women just don’t want men in their changing room.....either through fear, modesty, dignity. Whether they’re straight, trans, gay....makes no difference. I just don’t want to be seen naked by a man who is not my husband.

Please tell me why I’m not allowed that choice? Why you think it’s transphobic to want that choice?

There’s actually a big argument that the current trans movement is very homophobic. Better to have a daughter than a gay son for a lot of people?

Mummyoflittledragon · 08/03/2020 19:17

arraye
Have you joined especially to make these comments? Maybe you should be aware cis isn’t used on here. No one is interested in your false parallels. As someone, who became an adult in the 80’s I certainly don’t remember any lesbophobia. Homophobia toward gay males, yes, mostly unkind jokes. Definitely not fear.

FrogsFrogs · 08/03/2020 19:17

I don't remember fearing lesbians in changing rooms! And I'm fairly old.

It's always been men that were freaked out most by homosexuality. The jokes etc that they still make, the basis of lots of swear words, bears this out. Don't apply the deep seated issues men have with gay men, to women, please.

FrogsFrogs · 08/03/2020 19:18

Yes I'm sure women can be horrible but we don't make all the shower jokes etc do we.

Men have a real issue with this.

Tell me why you think if women are ok with getting changing with other women, who happen to be lesbians, they must let men in.

arraye · 08/03/2020 19:18

I think in 20 years' time people are going to look back on comments about how trans people shouldn't be allowed in certain bathrooms with disdain, like how we view those previous homophobic comments.

midgebabe · 08/03/2020 19:19

And the argument to keep men out of women's changing rooms ...I mean why do we have that. After all rape in highly unlikely in such an area, most men are good, the fear is irrational ...

Since transwomen commit offences at the same rate as men , to say that there is an irrational fear of transwomen you must also say it is an irrational fear of men and that therefore sex separated spaces are not needed, they are just supporting female irrational predujice aga8nst men.

Is that what you really think?

arraye · 08/03/2020 19:19

My point is you are assuming all trans people are predatory. Like how it was assumed all gay people are predatory.