8 year old boy wants to change with the girls

[FairytaleofBykerGrove]

I’ve been informed that a boy in my daughters class ‘feels like a girl’. He’s been wearing dresses to school for a while (fine) and now wants to change with the girls for swimming. Apparently the children will all accept it no problem and they’d like the parents to do the same. He will be under a poncho towel so we don’t have to worry about his privacy(?) I am really very unhappy with this. Which is why I’m up at 3 in the morning. The other parents I’ve spoken to don’t seem to care either way. I can’t understand it at all. Do you have any advice for me?

@ChickenonaMug I’m so sorry that you you were subjected to such awful experiences and that the adults around you failed to protect you.

What difference does that make?

They HAD separate single sex changing now they dont. And the girls are being gaslighted and groomed.

Thats not dismissed or.minimised just because in another school they change together

Chicken you have shared your painful history so many times on here, I imagine it must take a toll. I just want to say that you do a genuinely brave and worthwhile thing every time you do, and that your bravery is neither un-noticed, nor for nothing. It's testimony like yours that keeps me going. Much love x

It’s y4. Some of the girls are 9.

In my school they change for pe separately from y3. They only swim in y4 and change separately. Tbh if they swam in younger years, even reception, I’d expect separate changing. They have to wriggle out of their costumes and dry themselves. It’s not easy.

If these girls had always shared it would be different because adults wouldn’t be saying “it used to be just girls but now you have to be naked in front of a boy. You need to be kind. You can’t say no because that would be unkind”

My DD had school swimming in Yr1, so 5 years old, and had seperate changing.

Well done, OP.

Your school has had the perfect opportunity to teach boys that they need to be kind but fucked it up. Instead of being a shining example of how to handle this type of situation well they've taken the lazy route and piled all the responsibility on to little girls who are too young to understand that they can say no if it makes them feel uncomfortable even if they don't yet understand why they're uncomfortable. And once this boy has been accepted there's no going back when they're older and the self-consciousness of puberty really kicks in.

Young minds are so malleable. Most of the girls probably think the sun shines out of teacher's arse so if teacher 'suggests' in some way that it's the next best thing to flying unicorns to pander to a boy under the guise of 'kindness' they'll happily follow. I'm not a teacher but my best friend was and this was more or less how she explained what she called 'taming the herd' to me.

I'm shocked at the parents of one girl for not agreeing to you. The mum I could maybe understand but the dad? Surely he has known enough boys/men in his life to know that boys generally aren't kind and that a lot of males will have sexual feelings even in young puberty that they don't understand? The decent males in my life have always wanted to protect me from the males who are not so decent.

Unfortunately for me, they didn't always succeed and that's why I'm so hopeful that you succeed in your quest to not have a boy changing in with the girls. This poncho bullshit is just that. Give the boy the poncho and send him back in with the boys - where he belongs. If he doesn't like it provide a screen for him. But he is NOT a girl so should NOT change with them.

Don't get me started on this boy's parents! We all want the best for our children but this pair obviously think their little precious is much more important than a bunch of girls. They should have worked with the school about how the boys should be taught to be kind and accepting not taking the easy option of dumping on the girls like this.

Putting a boy in a changing room full of girls even if he 'feels like a girl' and wears dresses is NOT a good idea for so many reasons. It's lazy and woke of the school and being implemented for those completely wrong reasons.

I feel for all those on here who have posted their experiences of early puberty (I was also 8 with breasts, body hair, periods and size 6 feet - which caused me problems back then and bad feelings that have stayed with me all my life) and abuse in an effort to help you stay strong and fight this, OP. We're all behind you.

Keep us updated.

tell us why little girls are repeatedly being told that they must be naked in front of a boy because that's what he wants?

And there we have the whole transgender issue in a nutshell (as it were).

No he’s a boy. 8 year old is way to old. I wouldn’t happy with it x

tell us why little girls are repeatedly being told that they must be naked in front of a boy because that's what he wants?

And there we have the whole transgender issue in a nutshell (as it were).

Couldn’t agree more, Durgasarrow.

Coming to say I think that was an excellent way to handle the situation.

What might be fine for the Dad that has no problem has no bearing on what is right for you and your family.

Hoping for common sense to prevail with the HT.

FairyTale I am another one based in Ireland, coming to tell you that you are not alone.

Not surprised that you have not a response from the Principal; I would work on the assumption that you won't until they have consulted with the board of management. Mention safeguarding, Children First and you can be absolutely sure that everyone involved in school management will want to cross t's and dot i's before responding to you.
Keep going - this is important work

Brilliant work OP.

Isn't it strange how girls being in male changing rooms with their dads is considered in such different terms? Would we be debating 8/9/10 year old cut-offs for girls in the male changing room at the gym? Would anyone argue that it would be ok for an 8 year old girl who 'identied' as a boy to change (under a poncho) with boys? No, because single sex changing rooms exist for a reason. Let's keep it that way.

Chicken
Thank you for sharing your experiences. I totally get what you mean about defining yourself by the external gaze. I was lucky enough not to be touched. My older brother and at times his friends were very inappropriate.

I describe what he as did non touching sexual abuse - there was a lot of verbal stuff - and as he was a child for most of it, it was red traffic light stuff. Totally brushed under the carpet by my mother. Did my father know?? All I can say is that at 17 when his friend (then 19 / 20) walked in on me naked in my bedroom with the door closed, the only thing I was worried about was my mother finding out that I had been inappropriate.

I think your comment about pants is very very relevant. Children are getting very mixed messages.

And my dd also did swimming from yr1 and changed in the girls. The boys changed in the boys. When school children swim, I think sex segregation should mandatory at any age.

A fucking poncho.

Agree with the points above about asking the school for their legal frameworks - e.g. their Equality Impact Assessment and their risk assessments.
You should ask specifically about their peer-on-peer abuse policies. And if/when you get them, you should look for signs of the school creating a culture of resilience/boundaries - it's highly likely that any policy talks about preventing incidents directly but does it talk about creating a preventative culture?

All this 'being kind' and accommodating stuff is creating a huge vulnerability to people who would abuse it (as other posters have pointed out).

No-one is saying this boy is likely to abuse anyone, but girls (and boys) need to be able to create and maintain boundaries.

Here's a UK article on peer-on-peer abuse. It's a big problem.
www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/18/childline-rise-young-people-seeking-help-peer-on-peer-abuse-uk

And YES IT HAPPENS IN PRIMARY SCHOOL: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-49084906

I’d be furious.

Doesn’t matter if he’s under a poncho......the girls aren’t. Their feelings matter.

Would be bad enough if it was just for pe but for swimming as well.....no way! I’d threaten the school with every legal action under the sun.

Totally agree it shouldn’t be up to the girls. They’re already being pressured with messages of “be extra kind”. Which is the shit sort of oppression females have to put up with.

Why isn’t he being told to be extra kind and consider the girls feelings and get changed by himself in a toilet?

Meant to say some primary school girls are developing breast tissue. DD’s best friend was a C cup in year 6.

You can’t change a bra under a poncho very easily. Nor should you have to.

Was it a trendy cafe place yesterday with my 8 yr old Nephew. The were 3 loos, 1 female (yay!) 2 unisex.
Nephew went to the loos alone, then came back and quietly sat down at the table again.
He was too quick so I checked with him if he had been (he has a medical condition and needs to go to the loo frequently). He said, 'No, because there aren't any boys loos'.
I had to explain to him that he could use the
uni-sex loos, which he did, but he wasn't happy/comfortable using them.
It's not just women/girls who want single safe spaces, it's just not fair we are all being forced to share private spaces!

Tell them you want a separate change Ng room for your child.
That if it has a male bodied person in it you do not wish your naked female child to be observed.
If this mean the poncho wear chances first, then walks out that is fine, but at no point do you wish them to be changing at the same time.

fastliving you are right some men aren't that comfortable with it either.
My DH is no prude but he did voice a WTF at a woman taking her DS into the Gents. He'd just turned around from the urinals and she was standing there.

There’s such a simple solution here that I find it hard to believe the head hasn’t been pressured by the boys parents - the boy changes alone. No poncho needed. As they would have to do under religious / cultural concerns. This way is so fraught for both the girls and the boy himself. No need for anything other than kindness - for ALL.

If the boy is changing alone while the other children wait, the boys may as well wait and he can change in there.

Doubtless there will be a reason why this can’t happen, probably related to the boys taking longer because they mess around and aren’t as mature as the girls

And I guess that's another way to look at it. This cross dressing / trans boy, isn't that comfortable with changing with the boys either however that doesn't mean he should be with the girls.

Personally I'd be telling the boys parents to get a fucking grip. He's a boy who can wear what he likes but he's not going into the girls, changing room, toilets nor is he sleeping with them on any overnight trips.
I know that's not very PC. But really what kid can make decisions about gender and wanting to be a different sex?

I think this whole gender / pink for the girls / blue for the boys is a period that will be looked back on in horror.

Why are the girls being asked to be kind, but the boys are not? Surely if it doesn't matter, then he can continue to change with the boys? He isn't physically a girl. Changing under a poncho respects his privacy, but invades the girls!

My guess as to why he can't change alone is there isn't a 3rd disabled space for him to use.
The pool my kids lessons are held in is in a 1960s school. Very cramped boy / girl changing rooms and no disabled. At that point in time disabled children were sent to "special" schools.