What do you think about the rainbow flag?

[DJLippy]

Does anyone else get a shudder when they see a rainbow flag outside a venue? Harry the Owl compared it to a Nazi flag and I'm inclined to agree.

I'm Bisexual so I should be thrilled to find all these inclusive spaces but I just feel a stab of anxiety and make a mental note to steer well clear. It's a real physiological reaction not something I can control.

A few years ago I used to love seeing the pride flag outside bars. I guess back then it actually meant something. Now I feel like it's actually a sign of exclusion - that anyone who doesn't believe that twaw is not safe there.

Also it does kind of imply that all the other venues are a threat to the LGBTQI++ people. I actually get a lot less grief being with a woman in a normie bar than I would in a gay bar. What's more its often just random cafes and shops which as far as I am aware have no gay history. Just feels like a cheap virtue signal by straight woke folk.

I'd be interested in hearing from people who are same sex attracted. Do you feel that the flag which used to represent your community been appropriated by male supremacists? Do you self exclude from spaces which fly the rainbow flag?

Obviously women should should just surrender their rights in law because the rainbow flag is more than that... ? No, I don't think so!

What I don't get though, is that I've seen there's an actual Women's Day flag, so why not fly that one on Women's Day instead of one that has come to exclude people who are trans?

I believe that many women in the UK had chosen their own flag to represent themselves for International Women's Day.That flag was the one that bears the same statement as is on their T-shirts : woman - adult human female.

But it seems that some men insist on enforcing themselves over women's wants and demand we use a flag of which they, as men, approve. That hardly makes it a Women's Day, does it? It makes it a Women's Day [subject to male approval at all times] Day.

But it seems that some men insist on enforcing themselves over women's wants and demand we use a flag of which they, as men, approve. That hardly makes it a Women's Day, does it? It makes it a Women's Day [subject to male approval at all times] Day.

What men? How would we even know who or what approved the flag for goodness sake.
Bit of a jump to imply it's a flag made under mens eyes under their approval or whatever the heck it is you mean.

Men like Harrop, Wotcha.

Intolerance, misogyny, authoritarianism and liars are the first 4 that come to mind. Not the perception they were aiming for. My heart sinks when I see it now. But hey that's just me.

Posted too soon

That flag was the one that bears the same statement as is on their T-shirts : woman - adult human female

Well, there ya go then. Funny that the actual International Women's Day flag over that one got chosen then, innit?
One which has an undertone of transphobia (intent, blah blah)
or one which includes all women, including trans women.
It's a no brainer which is the most inclusive.

Well, Wotcha, here in UK women had chosen the flag they felt best represented them for Women's Day.

Some men didn't like that flag. They had it removed. They preferred the other flag, the one we women had chosen not to use. It is Women's Day, after all. But those men refused us the freedom to exercise our autonomy. Those men had to control us instead.

What is wrong with celebrating women for IWD

Nothing. Nothing at all.
What is so wrong with celebrating ALL women though and not more of a "we're celebrating women, but not you, look our definition says you're not in our club?"

One which has an undertone of transphobia

How is the dictionary definition of woman transphobic?

How is the legal definition of 'woman - a female of any age' transphobic?

Can you explain this?

The original "rain bow!" was a sign put up by the Almighty (AKA God!) that they would, thereafter, refrain themself from ever drowning whole populations, ever again!

It's a bit funny really, in a gallows humour sort of way!

Wotcha, A man, Dr Harrop has decided that the words "woman -adult human female" aren't fit for a flag, aren't suitable to be aired to the public.

This doesn't give you a single cause for concern? Not even a twinge? When it's for IWD?

glad there is a womens flag. that's a thing. then there is the rainbow flag which is also a thing and if you are gay and a woman are you supposed to choose? I don't think straight people need to comment so ima gonna fuck off

How is the dictionary definition of woman transphobic?

It's not.
See my "it's the intent, blah blah" comment.
Then my next comment about the not in the club.

Err...men can't be in the club of women.

See my "it's the intent, blah blah" comment. Then my next comment about the not in the club.

I have already said that the intent was choosing a flag that best represented UK women.

Why do you believe that the intent is different from women exercising the freedom that autonomy gives to make their own choices for themselves?

but not you, look our definition says you're not in our club?

International Lefthanders day is in August. I think it’s important that righthanded people are also acknowledged on that day in case they don’t feel part of the club.

The 20th of March is French Language Day. I think it’s important we celebrate English on that day lest the language feels excluded for not being part of French.

I have already said that the intent was choosing a flag that best represented UK women

You don't speak for all UK women though.

The women's flag was taken down, Cuatardo - by MEN. That's the point.

So far, so normal, women's oppression. By males.

You don't speak for all UK women though.

I haven't said that I did.

What I have said is that many women exercised their freedom to be autonomous and make a choice for themselves about how they were represented in the UK.

I have also said that some men refused to allow them to exercise that freedom of choice. I have said that those men had a need to dominate and control us.

Wotcha, answer me this, why do men have a SINGLE SAY in what flag women choose to fly on IWD?

Men like Dr Adrian Harrop, that is?

Can you not see this for the age-old misogyny it is? Men determining what flags women fly for their day?

why do men have a SINGLE SAY in what flag women choose to fly on IWD?
Men determining what flags women fly for their day

I don't see it as men telling women what they should be doing or flying in this case.
More of a people taking issue with other people wanting to fly a flag that comes across as a transphobic dog whistle. (Before somebody asks me to clarify, I already did upthread, with intent blah blah and you're not a woman, look our definition says so)
Nothing to do with male against female in this case to me.

No Wotcha, see it for what it is, a MAN telling women what flag is acceptable to fly.

And that is not acceptable. Women are human beings too, who can choose their own fucking flag. Dr Harrop and all his bearded friends can butt out. This is for women - even the women that don't agree - in the great word of Dworkin.

More of a people taking issue with other people wanting to fly a flag that comes across as a transphobic dog whistle

What exactly is a "transphobic dog whistle"?

The flag depicted the dictionary and the legal definition of woman.

How is that definition "transphobic"? You haven't yet explained this. You have said something about "intent". I asked you above why you believe the intent is different from women making their own choice about how they are represented.

You have answered neither of those queries. Perhaps you could oblige us before we proceed any further with this discussion?

This is for women - even the women that don't agree

As I said upthread - don't speak for all of us.