What do you think about the rainbow flag?

[DJLippy]

Does anyone else get a shudder when they see a rainbow flag outside a venue? Harry the Owl compared it to a Nazi flag and I'm inclined to agree.

I'm Bisexual so I should be thrilled to find all these inclusive spaces but I just feel a stab of anxiety and make a mental note to steer well clear. It's a real physiological reaction not something I can control.

A few years ago I used to love seeing the pride flag outside bars. I guess back then it actually meant something. Now I feel like it's actually a sign of exclusion - that anyone who doesn't believe that twaw is not safe there.

Also it does kind of imply that all the other venues are a threat to the LGBTQI++ people. I actually get a lot less grief being with a woman in a normie bar than I would in a gay bar. What's more its often just random cafes and shops which as far as I am aware have no gay history. Just feels like a cheap virtue signal by straight woke folk.

I'd be interested in hearing from people who are same sex attracted. Do you feel that the flag which used to represent your community been appropriated by male supremacists? Do you self exclude from spaces which fly the rainbow flag?

Found the flyer for you too RufustheLanglovingreindeer

As you can see it goes a bit beyond peacefully declaring lesbians are female homosexuals.

It's very extremist and imo lesbians should not feel manipulated into being any part of it.

Oh I misunderstood your post saphos

I took it to mean that if a transwomen was attracted to a woman that they were promoting rape culture

Quite obviously that couldn’t be the case

Thank you very much for your post, I understand a bit better now

I haven’t read your second post yet...be there in a minute

Oh my god i even spelt your name wrong...knew it didn’t look right

Thank you for the leaflet link

It's very extremist and imo lesbians should not feel manipulated into being any part of it.

As a heterosexual I cannot see anything 'extremist' there. Most of it is plain sense:
Lesbians are same sex attracted
Lesbians do not have penises
Lesbians do not want to have sex with men who identify as 'transwomen'

Erm you don't see any sweeping generalisations in that flyer then? And don't think accusing trans women who want to sleep with women as being rapists is extreme?

Okay, well I do.

The flyer says:
"coercing lesbians to accept penises as female organs & heterosexual intercourse as a lesbian sexual practice. We oppose this manipulative ideology and denounce it as a form of rape culture"
That's not the same as 'accusing transwomen who want to sleep with women as being rapists'. If the transwomen don't coerce anyone then it's not a form of rape culture.

Do you think coercing people to have sex they don't want is acceptable?

accusing trans women who want to sleep with women as being rapists

The flyers are an about transwomen who want to have sex with lesbians, ie exclusively same sex attracted women.

It doesn’t even mention transwomen who want to sleep with women of other sexual orientations.

Yeah im reading it that way alias

Do you think coercing people to have sex they don't want is acceptable?

No of course I don't. I also don't think that suggesting trans women are routinely doing this to lesbians is acceptable either. It's simply not true.

How many males would have to attempt to coerce female monosexual homosexuals into unwanted sex for it to be classified as a problem then?

No of course I don't. I also don't think that suggesting trans women are routinely doing this to lesbians is acceptable either. It's simply not true

I don’t read it as saying transwomen are routinely doing this.
I read it as empowering women to have boundaries if a transwomen is coercing them.
Boundaries are perfectly acceptable things to have. Even if there was only one transwomen in the world doing the coercion, it’s still a perfectly acceptable thing to teach women they are allowed to say no.

The flyer is about an ideological position that says women don't exist as women. It's about a set of ideas and practices that harms lesbians in some way. The authors have outlined why they believe this is the case. I would like to check the references for the statistics quoted, but from what I've read, heard from other lesbians and personally experienced about the subject it doesn't seem factually inaccurate. I believe the women who are concerned.

Personally, I'd word the leaflet differently, but then I am not an activist. I am not entreating anyone else to join in, really. I simply want more opportunities to speak about these issues calmly, clearly and explain how I feel.

In any case, this isn't about individuals.

You know what else I think promotes rape culture and harms lesbians?

Pornography.

Does that mean I would call everyone who watches porn a rapist?

No.

I've read the flyer four times and I don't see where they call all males-who-identify-as-women rapists. If they do, please can you show me where?

Meanwhile, I have read posts on here trying to defend the ideological position being critiqued in the flyer that I would classify as highly troubling regarding the right of lesbians to be assertive about explicitly denying sexual access to any biological males, regardless of identity or their hurt feelings, on the grounds of being exclusively same-sex attracted.

Not because "they're just not my type."

But because "they're not my sex."

The question we need to properly ask is why that seems to be such a problem?

Just been reading about an actor and how he's been with his wife's daughter and he's Dad as been together since age of 5
It made me think of this thread and so called dictionary definitions, and people thinking it's fine to call "truth."
Where does that begin and end?
You don't just go blurting out you're not the dictionary definition of dad, you're not biological, so how is it any different or less prejudiced than some of the stuff spouted on here?

I mean I could argue you're not a Dad as the dictionary says you're not.
Would make me an utter knob though.

Not even close. Anything else you want to make up and claim we said?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3839264-Freddy-McConnell-appeal-today-Transman-who-wants-to-be-registered-as-their-childs-father-Title-edited-by-MNHQ

Willis, that's the worst attempt at an analogy I've ever seen. Are you secretly a double agent working for our side? Because you couldn't be doing a worse job advocating for yours.

Why's inebriati's put that link? I wasn't even on about that thread.
Just saying definition of a dad is the biological person who gave birth to you.
Seeing as we're all about the definitions in here.

Just saying definition of a dad is the biological person who gave birth to you

Ironic under the circumstances

Wotcha why not assume we are quite smart, have already discussed definitions, their purpose and limitations and go from there.

I’m afraid Wotcha’s gotchas don’t stand up to scrutiny (ie, the definition of the word dad already includes non bio dads so your point has no foundation).

As a hero woman I'd like to know is the "lbgbtq......whatever" actually a community? I cannot see what a lesbian, a homosexual man, a bisexual person, a queer person, a transexusl, a non binary person all have in common which is not common to other people of heteroseual persuasion. Yes there is violence and hatred of these people but there are laws to protect and plenty of people out with these subgroups to support them.

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/father
Father
(1) : a male parent
(2) : a man who has begotten a child
also : a male animal who has sired an offspring

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/parent
Parent:
a: one that begets or brings forth offspring
just became parents of twins
b : a person who brings up and cares for another
foster parents

The real comparison here would be whether everyone should be allowed to freely self-identify as a parent despite having no children, biological or that they care for.

The real comparison here would be whether everyone should be allowed to freely self-identify as a parent despite having no children, biological or that they care for.

Well yes - surely you can identify as a parent if you’ve got no kids? Oh I forgot, only one fantasy is indulged.

It made me think of this thread and so called dictionary definitions, and people thinking it's fine to call "truth."
Where does that begin and end?

With honesty.

Some pet wonders do... can we be anything now? Isn’t that what we tell small children? ‘You can be anything you want to be when you grow up!’