What do you think about the rainbow flag?

[DJLippy]

Does anyone else get a shudder when they see a rainbow flag outside a venue? Harry the Owl compared it to a Nazi flag and I'm inclined to agree.

I'm Bisexual so I should be thrilled to find all these inclusive spaces but I just feel a stab of anxiety and make a mental note to steer well clear. It's a real physiological reaction not something I can control.

A few years ago I used to love seeing the pride flag outside bars. I guess back then it actually meant something. Now I feel like it's actually a sign of exclusion - that anyone who doesn't believe that twaw is not safe there.

Also it does kind of imply that all the other venues are a threat to the LGBTQI++ people. I actually get a lot less grief being with a woman in a normie bar than I would in a gay bar. What's more its often just random cafes and shops which as far as I am aware have no gay history. Just feels like a cheap virtue signal by straight woke folk.

I'd be interested in hearing from people who are same sex attracted. Do you feel that the flag which used to represent your community been appropriated by male supremacists? Do you self exclude from spaces which fly the rainbow flag?

Who are you referring to?

I find it hard to understand how someone who says they’re a lesbian can just stand idly by “enjoying themselves” while other lesbians are abused for stating something as straightforward as a definition of their attraction.

Why should I get involved? Their choice to try and turn a day of celebration into a bunfight. They were goading the TRAs into a reaction and surprise surprise the TRAs reacted. TRAs are not exactly known for being quiet and retiring.

Ironically, the lesbian = female homosexual banners are just making a big issue about trans women identifying as lesbians. It's giving it more oxygen and all of a sudden lesbian issues are centering trans women.

Oh, I think you know.

The lesbians who protested are the evidence that they feel under threat. You and those women both share views that are considered transphobic. They wanted to protest that their view isn’t transphobic, you don’t, fair enough. But why shouldn’t they, just because you don’t find it a problem yourself? And why should they be abused for it?

I'm not trying to guilt anyone into anything, I just don’t understand the lack of empathy. I don’t understand why their choice of how and when they chose to protest is considered more important than the abuse they got for doing so. They’re brave enough to stand up against those who call their sexuality transphobic, you’re not, but you think they should keep their protest to themselves, and any abuse that comes their way is fair enough because Pride should be “inclusive”. What’s inclusive about telling a group of women to shut up? We are not talking about a political statement here. We are talking about the definition of lesbian. If that can’t be clearly stated at Pride, where should it be? If the world sees that Pride believes that lesbian now includes people with penises, and everyone seems happy with that scenario, how are those women meant to protect their sexuality class in the face of such public gaslighting? Where do you think would be a good, nice place to protest?

Their choice to try and turn a day of celebration into a bunfight. They were goading the TRAs into a reaction and surprise surprise the TRAs reacted. TRAs are not exactly known for being quiet and retiring

That comes across as incredibly victim-blamey. ‘How dare women openly say that they are same-sex attracted, they deserve everything they get from homophobic misogynistic bullies hiding under ‘trans umbrella’.’

It’s in the name - pride - being proud about being out and visible. But not too out and visible because then you’ll provoke homophobes and that’s your fault? Pfffft.

Why should I get involved? Their choice to try and turn a day of celebration into a bunfight. They were goading the TRAs into a reaction and surprise surprise the TRAs reacted

As I’ve said, I don’t think you should get involved but want to understand why you don’t condemn the abuse they got. Your answer is “she made me do it, she brought it on herself”.

Disgusting attitude.

Suddenly I have this song in my head.

What abuse though? I was there. I saw what happened. The women were met with stony silence and a few boos. I would hardly call that abusive. Especially as they were the ones who barged to the front of the parade without permission.

@TheProdigalKittensReturn that’s why I’m asking you, a word with who? Lesbians protesting at Pride of TRA? It’s not clear from your post.

These women who feel under threat are a tiny tiny amount of lesbians, just because a small minority of people feel under threat, does not mean there is evidence that all lesbians are under threat. I can’t see any evidence to justify turning pride into a TRA vs lesbians political rally personally, I don’t attend for that, if you or other women do then go ahead, but don’t start using phrases like “why don’t you have any empathy?” and deny you’re trying to guilt people.

They were also giving out flyers accusing trans activists of promoting rape culture. It's hardly surprising they got a few boos for that.

Based on those who I know I do not agree that it's a tiny number of lesbians at all. But yes, if you're going to scold women here then it's only fair to tell off the TRAs who've made them feel threatened too.

I said nothing about empathy btw, do try to remember that everyone disagreeing with you is not the same person.

You still haven’t answered my question..

Anecdotal evidence is not is proof.

I’m aware you’re not the same person, that was a reply to @NotBadConsidering where I forgot to tag her.

*is not proof

I'm afraid that I really don't have time to give reading comprehension lessons at the moment.

They were also giving out flyers accusing trans activists of promoting rape culture. It's hardly surprising they got a few boos for that.

Why, because it’s true? Here is a compilation of trans activists promoting the idea that lesbians should just “give in” and “get over” their genital preference and have sex with trans women even if they don’t want to. That’s rape culture.

terfisaslur.com/cotton-ceiling/

I can’t link that autostraddle article advising lesbians how to get over their disgust at a penis and crack on because it’s too awful.

Their flyers were “are you aware that this is what are saying”.

Lmao asking someone to clarify who they are referring to when it could be multiple people is a “reading lesion” now is it? Why are you being so deliberately obtuse? It’s really not hard to write a one word answer to clarify.

I’m a bi woman and I love seeing the rainbow flag, especially in places that were traditionally quite homophobic- I’m also a Christian and seeing churches flying rainbow flags really makes me feel warm inside.

NotBadConsidering an acquaintance of mine is a trans woman who is attracted to women. She was at Pride and was handed the rape culture flyer.

It left her really upset and shaken that she is perceived by some lesbians as rapey and abusive just for being who she is. Nothing could be further from the truth.

She tried not to let us ruin her day but it did put a dampener on it.

Do you feel any empathy for her?

Be fair now, I'm much too nice to ever give someone a reading "lesion" on purpose.

(‘Reading lesions’ has made me proper howl. It sounds like a cross section of divination and dermatology)

It left her really upset and shaken that she is perceived by some lesbians as rapey and abusive just for being who she is

She tried not to let us ruin her day but it did put a dampener on it.

Yes I imagine it must be upsetting to realise that your community contains members who are so destructive and abusive towards women. But I note it didn’t upset her enough to do anything about it, to tackle that part of her community and hold them to account. No she just decided not to let it ruin her day. Lucky her.

@TheProdigalKittensReturn I’m presuming you don’t have much to add to the debate so prefer to be obtuse, refuse to answer questions and point out typos instead?

I can’t see any proof from anyone that this is a widespread issue that threatens all lesbians tbh, anecdotal evidence and a small number of women (less than 30 out tens of thousands of women at pride) “feeling threatened” is not evidence of a large scale problem.

I think there’s a lot of scaremongering and judging of the whole trans community by a minority of extremists. Not all trans people believe in or preach this nonsense, there are a number of prominent trans women on social media who are debating and calling out trans rights extremists, so the argument that trans people don’t care or aren’t doing anything to tackle these people isn’t true.

It’s also hypocritical to preach about people having no empathy for women who feel threatened when you have no empathy yourself for innocent trans women and their partners who feel targeted and threatened at what is supposed to be a celebration of LGBT. Does your empathy only apply to biological women and women who do not date or have relationships with trans women? What about the women hurt by people telling them they’re not lesbians because their partner is a trans women? Shouldn’t have to point this out, but not all trans women have penises, which seems to be the main point being argued on here, you can be in a relationship with a trans woman and still be a lesbian.

9/10 for petulance but the accusations need some work.

why are you demanding empathy for male bodied people from women who are currently expressing it for teenage lesbians?

Women aren’t just men without penises. We are a distinct, separate category and many of us have already had a lifetime time of being groomed into taking responsibility for the emotions of male people.

Feminism is about breaking free of that, it’s about liberation. This is a feminist chat board.

Since when is empathy limited to biological women? I must have missed the memo telling me I’m in some kind of war against everyone with a Y chromosome. If you’re gonna preach to people about not having empathy you’re gonna get called out for not having empathy yourself.