What do you think about the rainbow flag?

[DJLippy]

Does anyone else get a shudder when they see a rainbow flag outside a venue? Harry the Owl compared it to a Nazi flag and I'm inclined to agree.

I'm Bisexual so I should be thrilled to find all these inclusive spaces but I just feel a stab of anxiety and make a mental note to steer well clear. It's a real physiological reaction not something I can control.

A few years ago I used to love seeing the pride flag outside bars. I guess back then it actually meant something. Now I feel like it's actually a sign of exclusion - that anyone who doesn't believe that twaw is not safe there.

Also it does kind of imply that all the other venues are a threat to the LGBTQI++ people. I actually get a lot less grief being with a woman in a normie bar than I would in a gay bar. What's more its often just random cafes and shops which as far as I am aware have no gay history. Just feels like a cheap virtue signal by straight woke folk.

I'd be interested in hearing from people who are same sex attracted. Do you feel that the flag which used to represent your community been appropriated by male supremacists? Do you self exclude from spaces which fly the rainbow flag?

Of course homosexual= same sex preference isn’t transphobic, I’ve only seen it called that by a very small vocal minority of radical trans activists on social media, who received a huge backlash from the LGBT community for saying so. I do not believe this is as big of an issue as people are making out, there’s a lot of scare mongering and smearing of entire community based on a few extremists.

@rufus I wasn’t talking about people being told that being bonkers, I was talking about the people preaching that. The vast majority of us know what they’re saying is bonkers.

Sorry elsie in which case I completely agree with you!

If it’s not a big issue, and only a few radical trans activists on social media ever say that genital preferences are transphobic, why is it therefore controversial for a small number of lesbians to voice their objection to that? Why were they shut down?

Genital preferences are not transphobic, but if a lesbian is attracted to a trans women that doesn’t mean she’s no longer a lesbian imo, as attraction is complicated and doesn’t necessary follow general “rules”. Personally I think statements like that at an event that’s meant to welcomes and celebrate all LGBT people are unnecessary and inflammatory, not only towards trans women, but towards lesbians who are in relationships or are attracted to trans women. It also really goes against the spirit of Pride and what it was created for, which is probably why they were stopped.

If woman is same sex attracted and is attracted to a transwomen then they are bisexual and there is nothing wrong with that.

I disagree, if that trans woman passes as a woman, has breasts, doesn’t have a penis, looks like a woman, walks like a woman, sounds like a woman, and the only reason anyone know she’s trans is if she tells them or they DNA tested her, someone like Nikita Dragun or Nikki Tutorials as an example. That doesn’t mean that person is now attracted to men and women in general aka bisexual.

Elsiebear90 but you’re now expressing the opinion that transwomen are only women if they pass and have their penis removed. That position is considered transphobic by many and if you posted that on Twitter you’d be abused for it.

And taking that further, do you think a woman who is in a relationship with a transwoman who doesn’t “pass” and still has their penis is also a lesbian?

If woman is same sex attracted and is attracted to a transwomen then they are bisexual and there is nothing wrong with that.

What is wrong is lecturing women how they should label themselves. A person's individual sexuality is nobody's else's business.I know there have always been lesbian purists who claimed women weren't true lesbians unless they are gold star. Now unless lesbians outright reject trans women and hold up placards at Pride with the dictionary definition on lesbian on it then they are bisexuals with no empathy. It's tiresome.

What is wrong is lecturing women how they should label themselves. A person's individual sexuality is nobody's else's business

No, this is not true, because sexuality is a protected characteristic in law and has a legal definition - same sex attracted - and changing the definition affects everyone. Self-define however you want and be attracted to whoever you want, but you can’t change definitions and expect everyone to comply when those definitions are false.

Now unless lesbians outright reject trans women and hold up placards at Pride with the dictionary definition on lesbian on it then they are bisexuals with no empathy.

For clarity, I think you have no empathy because you don’t seem to care that women who did hold placards were abused as a result, not because you didn’t hold a placard yourself.

Why should women feel obliged to make political statements at Pride? Most of us just want to go and enjoy ourselves and celebrate along with our LGBT+ friends and allies. We don't want to go and pick fights with TRAs.

I don't think people are telling you that you need to make a political statement. But that it is the right of others to make a political statement and maybe you should have some concern when that is being shut down.

Pride does have its origins in political action, not just a sort of gay Sunday school picnic.

"Lesbians saying that they're exclusively lesbian goes against the spirit of Pride"

Do you hear yourself?

If woman is same sex attracted and is attracted to a transwomen then they are bisexual and there is nothing wrong with that.

I understand why you would say this, but I don't think it actually follows. The thing is, I don't think there is really such a think as a "trans" oriented sexuality, what we call sexual orientation is oriented to maleness or femaleness. That's biological and has a cultural overlay in terms of what we expect or read as male or female. But it's not something that's a theoretical activity, it's very much unconscious brain stuff.

Some transgendered people are usually interpreted by the brain of others in terms of their natal sex, and some give confused signals which most people don't find sexually attractive. But some trans people do 'read" to at least some other people in terms of how they are presenting. At that point you can have sexual attraction, and once that happens, finding out the person is actually not quite what you are expecting may or may not diminish that attraction. But it's an attraction to the individuals presentation and probably individual personality, and in spite of whatever parts of the body don't quite fit that profile.

I'm not asking anyone else to "take up action."

I will say that I'm very fond of the dictionary definition of lesbian. I'm attached to the literal meaning of the word, as it took me a while to accept that's what I am.

Yes, I have a personal, gut reaction to the dialogue around this issue. It may be because much of what others are telling me now regarding my perceptions sounds similar to that familiar inner voice saying "you should be very ashamed of yourself, shut up and do your best to hide."

Maybe I am just imagining that someone on this thread compared same-sex attraction being uttered openly as the reason for a lesbian to reject a person born-male-but-who-identifies-as-a-woman as something a bit like racism. Perhaps I am reading too much into it when I detect almost a whiff of an insinuation that a lesbian who is a feminist is not quite a "proper lesbian" if she is involved in the "wrong kind of politics" (the only kind of lesbian in the LGBTQ+ umbrella, it seems, that comes with such a caveat). Likely I am just being over-sensitive when it comes to reading signs telling me to "stand by your trans" as similar to being berated for being a "man hater," or wondering why "trans women are women" is completely fine in LGBTQ+ spaces as a political statement, but "lesbian: female homosexual" is beyond the pale?

I don't hate anyone. I just love women.

You're very welcome to call me crazy. It won't be the first time, it won't be the last.

All I'm saying is that when I see the rainbow flag, my experiences have primed me for some stormy weather and icy winds. If it's always been warm and sunny where you are, that's wonderful. I'm not trying to change your mind or telling anyone else how to feel. I'd just personally like not to be belittled for my own strong instinct to put on a raincoat instead of reaching for a bikini.

Every time I see one my hackles rise. Have to cross a bloody big rainbow zebra crossing when I get off the train and actually try to avoid it. But feel sad that it used to be a very positive symbol representing issues I wholeheartedly supported before the "hijack" by the radical trans brigade

Sorry just noted the OP was asking for views from same-sex attracted people so ignore my post above

For clarity, I think you have no empathy because...

Thats how i read it

Lesbians saying that they're exclusively lesbian goes against the spirit of Pride

It’s the whole bleeding point of Pride

Amazed at the contortions. Also laughing, frankly.

Lesbians saying that they're exclusively lesbian goes against the spirit of Pride

Wtf🤦‍♀️😂😂

🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Maybe we could have a rebrand and call it Shame (but only for those witches who don't like cock).

Pride comes before a fall...

Haven’t RTFT but Sheldon Cooper would probably enjoy featuring the rainbow flag on his “flagship” programme Fun With Flags, and annoy an awful lot of people as a result.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=LeyofQK6tRw

@NotBadConsidering I couldn’t care less if it’s considered transphobic, I don’t personally consider biological men who look like biological men and have penises women, (I am against self ID, to make that abundantly clear), which is why as lesbian I wouldn’t date a person like that. If other women want to and still consider themselves lesbians that’s their choice, but I don’t feel the need to attend Pride, an event to celebrate LGBT people and plaster slogans about it on my t shirt is what I’m saying. People thinking genital preferences are transphobic are a tiny minority of trans rights extremists, do you have any proof that this is a wide spread belief and lesbians are under threat? If not, then I stand by my belief that attending an event like Pride to make political statements against trans women and their partners is not something I can personally support. If you want to do that then good for you, but do not try to guilt other lesbians into your anti trans politics.

I would also say the same for radical trans activists if they were attending pride for the purpose of protesting lesbians’ genital preferences are transphobic, it’s not the place imo. However, correct me if I’m wrong, but considering this is apparently a wide spread belief that’s a threat to all lesbians, I’ve never heard of anyone doing that.

Better go have a word with them about that, then!

PS You're wrong. HTH