Lisa Nandy says child rapists should be in women’s prisons if they identify as female

[RoyalCorgi]

Extraordinary.

www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=oUon9j1zJ_E&

As an aside, though one which I think relevent, does anyone know anything about Dawn Butler MP (shadow minister Women & Equalities) allegedly saying "A child is born without sex in the beginning" this morning?

R0wanstrees There’s a clip here: twitter.com/jammersminde/status/1229439480064610308?s=21

I find it a bit puzzling given that I had amnios for both my children so I actually knew their sex before they were born.

Crikey, it’s like you are having a different discussion to the rest of us.

Same old, same old.

Anyway as I mentioned earlier, Labour's offer of captive prison population of victims for rapists is declined. We will not be voting for you any its simply reducing the labour vote even further. Clap that.

Apologies as this has probably already been said.

But whilst Labour gets a lot of negative attention on this subject, with members such as myself avowing they will finally definitely this time leave, the current policy under our Conservative government is self ID already, yes? So there are currently already male prisoners in female prisons aren't there? Not to mention the influence of Stonewall, Mermaids and Gendered Intelligence etc get to have on schools, universities, businesses like M&S etc. The Conservative party must love how Labour gets all the abuse for this when they're essentially advocating the same but on the quiet.

That’s crazy, especially as some families have IVF especially to select embryos of the sex that isn’t afflicted by their family’s condition, or because they want a donor match for a sick older sibling...

...which of course is a whole other contentious topic, but the fact is, the sex of an embryo can be detected before it’s even implanted inside the womb.

According to this proponent of male rapists being given captive victims ...

"The new rules will enable prisoners who identify as gender fluid or gender non-binary to express their gender too."

It's a leftie academic pomo obsession.

inherentlyhuman.wordpress.com/2016/11/21/new-policy-on-transgender-prisoners-progressive-but-can-prisons-keep-pace/?fbclid=IwAR0hAqIfMzP2Plg45t9idZLSpywxzT9YkDriaWhlKQS2yi-LdCLaCQvdY8c

I wonder where Nandy et al would propose we put non binary prisoners?

The common sense solution would be to create a Female Identifying Wing in each male prison; because mixed sex prisons are not going to work.

Labour - campaigning for the rapists, not for women.
Even UKIP don't go this far. Thats how far to the right Labour are on this issue.
While the UKIP manifesto says they will repeal the Equality Act, they want to roll back rights to the previous legislation, not try to pretend women don't even exist as a distinct class.

Do not forget this is the moderate end of the trans-lobby who want to self-ID into women's prisons.

The carpet-chewers say no self-IDing trans-person should ever be sent to prison at all.

rogdmum Thank you for the link.
I presume Dawn Butler got her assigneds & identifieds plus her sexes & genders mixed up? Its increasingly difficult to be sure though.

This week is getting stranger & stranger.

Was just coming back to find ROGDmums link.

This is what we need threads to focus on.

"A child is born without sex in the beginning"

Seriously? Can she hear herself?

She's talking about gender - and I totally agree that a child is born without gender in the beginning.

She may be confusing sexual identity with sexual awareness. Pre-pubertal hildren are sexually latent, but from an early age mostly show a preference for making friends with their own sex.

Sorry the one way back re GRA reform.

I had a NIPT test with number two.

I didn't realise It included a number of intersex conditions, and so obviously sex too; consequently I knew he was a boy at 11 weeks.

Which took some level of shine off the surprise but I knew he was very healthy and I didn't tell anyone else for some time. (It wouldn't have changed having him if he'd had any conditions but it included some very life limiting ones.)

at present there are supposedly safeguards in policies wrt prisons, they're clearly not working but there is at least some semblance of recognition that risk assessment is necessary

Current prison policy is to place prisoners according to their legally recognised sex. So a male with a GRC goes to a female prison.

So what do we think the odds are of:

A) Nandy doubling down

B) Issuing some garbled statement trying (and failing) to get herself out of the hole she's dug for herself

My thoughts A) 2/1 B) 5/1

Simply on the basis she can't even see the seriousness of the implications of her views and is stuck in a feedback loop of woke men applauding her for removing safeguards and rights for women in favour of sexually abusive men.

Expect some vague genuflections towards 'safeguards' and there are also some very violent and dangerous femalewomen in jail, etc.

Well Dawn just our dumbed dumb day saying that babies are born without sex. Is there something in the water at Labour HQ?

Im going to step out now - a busy evening ahead. But I would ask folk to take a moment to reflect of the treatment of what I regarded as a reasonable point to make about 'absolutism' wrt women's spaces excluding all trans women.

In response I have been told what my motivation and intentions are (and then criticised for correcting that), told that I should not be expressing an opinion at all and so on.

If GC folk are going to effectively complain about non-platforming, a different approach is needed. Trans individuals like myself have been quietly showing over the last 21 years since we have had a degree of legal protection that we are safe, sane contributors to society, not to be judged by our protected characteristic, just as women, ethnic and religious minorities before us and other groups have been doing. We have a right to exist in the same space as everyone else - not in some 'third space'. I am old enough to have visited aparteid South Africa and have seen a society split into 'Bloks' and 'Blankes'. Not an acceptable solution especially for someone who had had to fight for their femininity, such as it is.

A friend of mine (with no stake in this game) watched the video on which this case is based this afternoon and was as shocked as I was by the disrespect exibited to Lisa Nandy by Julia Long who smirked her way through Ms Nandy's answer without apparently paying any attention to it.

I dont regard trans rights as absolute (religion and the ability to refuse to have trans priests is an obvious example). There are serious questions to ask about such matters as safeguarding, or the provision of certain women's services. But a sensible answer wont emerge in the pile-on atmosphere engendered here, or from an absolutest position which fails at the simplest hurdles (how to define 'woman' and how to test / enforce against that definition).

I post under my real name and anyone wishing to discuss the clash of rights and how solutions might be found is welcome to PM me. It is an important (and interesting!) discussion to be had.

regards and respects to all

Robin Moira White

It's not the thread topic, and we really shouldn't lose sight of the extremely serious issues around women's safety in prisons.

I said this back on page 6 or so, and recommended they search for toilet threads. I've been skipping their posts and the replies ever since.
Yes, it's an obvious merail (love that word!). Just don't pay attention.

I've been skipping their posts and the replies ever since.

You're not missing much. It's the usual tedious comparison to apartheid and extreme annoyance that Julie Long isn't respectful enough 🤣

Oh my. For a moment I saw the words, was as shocked as I was and I thought maybe, just maybe, you'd finally twigged what this thread was about.

Silly old me.

Is there a thread about Dawn Butler? I think as many people need to see that as possible!

And when she makes her ridiculous claim that a child is born without a sex, does anyone interviewing her say "catch yourself on, Dawn"? No they do not.

Wow, just wow.

And interesting to hear from AnotherNightWatering
it was illogical me-railing that opened my eyes to this whole ridiculous business

Sort of speaks to this point:
RobinMoiraWhite
Would I be wrong in suspecting attempt to weaponise trans women?

Nope - many seem to be able to 'self-weaponise' themselves, by their actions and words that we see and witness daily. Sometimes on these boards. Today, on this thread!

Julia Long doesn't need to ''weaponise' anything, she just strongly and openly verbalises what's out there.

I can't see if the me-rail included answering the question that was asked several times, and is explictly linked to the title of this thread: should child rapists be in women's prisons if they identify as female?