Lisa Nandy says child rapists should be in women’s prisons if they identify as female

[RoyalCorgi]

Extraordinary.

www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=oUon9j1zJ_E&

Brendan O'Neill:

Labour has completely lost the plot on the trans issue. Lisa Nandy is now arguing that male rapists who identify as women should be put in women’s prisons. That is such a mad and dangerous idea. And yet if you question it, you’ll be called a bigot.”

I find it incredible that men like Brendan O'Neill are the ones willing to stand up for women's rights here. Too many men and women on the left have been silenced on this now, in the name of progressiveness.

Nobody in their right mind should think it's a good idea to put any rapist in a women's prison fgs - and yet it's happened, and Labour are saying it should be allowed?! Utter madness. This is criminally negligent.

Perhaps Lisa Nandy could explain why child soldiers - manipulated by selfish adults, led into situations beyond their understanding,left with mental and physical long term issues - are A BAD THING but transing children is fine??

Oh and good for Julia Long - in a hostile room full of (mostly) men applauding at Lisa Nandy saying male child rapists should be granted space in women's prisons - she shines a light on this whole thing. And the rest of the county says "Labour...WTF??"

Nobody in their right mind should think it's a good idea to put any rapist in a women's prison fgs - and yet it's happened, and Labour are saying it should be allowed?! Utter madness. This is criminally negligent.

Labour are not only saying it should be allowed but that anyone who wishes to discuss the subject is transphobic and if they are party members should be expelled.

Yes I too do a "spot the Mumsnetter" on the Times comments.

Me three!

Yes, put them in with the women and see how long the fucking bastards live!

I would suspect that paedophiles could - well here’s a shocker - self ID as female to get out of male prisons because jails aren’t safe spaces for sex offenders especially paedophiles.

A male would have a physical advantage over the women and because of the ratio of women locked up for violence is way lower than males, potentially fewer people queuing the beat their heads in. Plus the opportunity to have sex with a vulnerable/crazy (they’d have to be to want a paedophile) woman.

Plus nice special treatment argues by their lawyers for being so vulnerable, etc.

Oh yes Lisa et al, what could possibly go wrong?

All women should carry guns and know how to use them. Adrienne Rich

Sorry, Andrea Dworkin not Adrienne Rich. Here is a link to her 'i favour violence' speech,a refreshing change to our turn the other cheek attitude to male violence

What are all those Labour members doing endorsing and applauding all this?

Have they been so brainwashed, they're just sitting there, thinking tum ti tum.... and then hear the magic words transwomen are women" - and ping "automatic applause" ?

Like Lenina in Brave New World. "the words seemed to touch a spring in her mind..."

They are conditioned. They would have applauded if she had just stood up and farted.

Is it being suggested that because of the especially challenging issues arising from the need to appropriately house less than 100 trans-identifying prisoners, I and the 12,000 to 20,000 trans women (still only 1 in 3,000 or less) living in and contributing to society should be prevented from using the female lavatories at my place of work or in Sainsbury’s

Or to put it another way, is it being suggested that to protect the emotional wellbeing of 12-20k transwomen, the physical and emotional wellbeing of approx 32 million females should be put at risk?

Sex segregation exists for a reason. Being kind to TW by granting access to women's spaces creates an open season where all men have access. There's no way to differentiate in the real world. The toilets argument is the thin end of the wedge which is being used to rip a hole in women's right and protections.

well, I wouldn't want someone like Katie Dolatowski in my loo. Although that was Morrison’s, presumably Sainsbury’s can see into souls better? Ffs

RobinMoiraWhite Im sure we were on a thread very recently which discussed the horrific violent sexual assaults of two young girls (10 & 12 yrs) by Dolatowski. The girls were in Morrissons toilets of two supermarkets in Scotland. Dolatowski (aged 17 at the time of these assaults) identifies as a transwoman & was subsequently placed in a female only bail hostel.

transcrimeuk.com/2019/02/02/katie-dolatowski/

One of the girls mother's decribed the impact on her young daughter:

Dundee Courier:
"The woman – who cannot be named to protect the identity of her child – voiced fury that Katie Dolatowski had been freed to serve her sentence in the community.

Dolatowski, 18, sexually assaulted the girl in the toilets of Morrisons, Kirkcaldy.

She grabbed the terrified youngster by the face, shoved her into the cubicle and ordered her to remove her trousers.

But instead of being jailed at Kirkcaldy Sheriff Court, Dolatowski, who identifies as a woman but was believed by her victim’s family to be a man, was given community payback and tagging orders.

The mum felt “very, very let down” and said: “I don’t have any confidence whatsoever that he will not go out and do something equally as bad or worse.”

The girl had been sledging when the assault occurred on March 4, last year, a month after Dolatowski had filmed a 12-year-old girl on the toilet in another supermarket in Dunfermline.

When she came out of her cubicle, Dolatowski shoved her back in and told her there was a man outside who would kill her mother.

The brave schoolgirl, however, punched Dolatowski in the face, stomach and groin and ran to her father and siblings waiting just outside the toilets.

Her mother said the girl was hysterical after the attack and continued to suffer flashbacks.

She said: “This is something that will remain with her for the rest of her life" (continues)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3496984-Article-in-Dundee-Courier-about-assault-of-10-year-old-girl-in-supermarket-toilets

What would be the impact on this young girl if when using female single sex spaces (toilets/changing rooms/hospital wards etc) she saw a male person who was identifying as a woman?

Yeah, crucial thing to discuss here is the effect on women and women's rights regarding insane politicians wanting to put rapists in women's prisons. So throwing the derailing squirrel about 'quick argue (for the umpteenth time) about toilets with me' is insensitivity in the extreme.

Unless it's been done purely to try and shut up women before they create a really inconvenient conversation that you'd rather wasn't had.

You'd have to be very anti women's rights to do that though.

Robin

Coming on here whining about using Sainsburys toilets isn't helping the TW case. You are part of the problem.

Transwomen who have supported the TRA agenda have, unwittingly or otherwise, unleashed public criticism and suspicion against themselves. TW have been judged by their words and actions and by failing to respect the right of females to erect boundaries for their safety, most of the sympathy that TW may have once enjoyed has evaporated. Attitudes have hardened;, get over it.

"I see that you're all very upset about rapists being put in women's prisons for some odd vagina-y reason that probably isn't very important, but what about me?"

What would be the impact on this young girl if when using female single sex spaces (toilets/changing rooms/hospital wards etc) she saw a male person who was identifying as a woman?

Apologies, the question should simply be about the consequences for this girl if she saw a male in female single sex space. It would be recognising a male which would cause the impact to her.

Plus the opportunity to have sex with a vulnerable/crazy (they’d have to be to want a paedophile) woman

No not crazy: manipulated. Paedophile are supreme manipulators. They manipulate everyone in order to get access to children and to get away with it. They may well come across as nice caring men and go to some trouble to present themselves as pillars of the community whilst carry out vile abuse behind the scenes.

Is it being suggested that because of the especially challenging issues arising from the need to appropriately house less than 100 trans-identifying prisoners

Your numbers are wrong, there are currently 1500 trans identifying prisoners in male prisons who would be able to transfer to female prisons in Nandyland.

I don't know - but who can explain the type of women who write to lifers and marry them...? Or women (is it Karen Matthews who staged a fake child kidnap?) who is engaged to a convicted paedophile?). Some women would happily throw women and children under the bus for 'their man'.

Hmm. Yes there are those.

To 3,831 women prisoners at the last count number I can find. So that in a stroke makes the womens prison population more than a third male. Over one in three women prisoners would be male.

How privileged do you have to be to not imagine what that would be like for women trapped in this situation?

In Nandyland, any male prisoner would be able to self ID as a woman and gain a transfer to a women's prison. No physical changes even necessary, because it's transmisogyny to suggest that transwomen should even present as women.

My motive in asking the question was not to ‘shut anyone up’ or ‘lay a squirrel’ (whatever that means).

I would genuinely like the debate on how to accommodate conflicting rights to be conducted to occur but it seems impossible when the majority of the GC movement adopt a position that would deny me, a respectable, contributing citizen, the opportunity to go about my day to day business.

Of course rapists should be contained, and those who use the facilities and opportunities that society provides fraudulently or for a malign purpose should be controlled.

But you wouldn’t be arguing that we can’t have male doctors, teachers or emergency service workers because a vanishingly tiny proportion of people in those possessions exploit their access to vulnerable individuals?

But if the impractical unworkable extreme is really the collective GC position, then, with respect, it will always fail, it seems to me.

Robin, with respect, this isn't about you. This is about the rights of females not to be incarcerated with rapists.