Doesn't self-ID only benefit non-genuine cases?

[UpfieldHatesWomen]

I'm trying to figure out if there are actually any benefits to self-ID at all for people with gender dysphoria. The arguments for self-ID are that it costs money, and it's 'humiliating' to have to present your case to a panel of experts. First of all, a GRC only costs £140. Doesn't seem like a staggering amount of money, if you follow the narrative that people will kill themselves in their masses without it. Are there other costs that I'm missing here? The NHS covers hormones and medical procedures in the UK. I also fail to see what's humiliating about a psychological/medical assessment, to see if you actually have gender dysphoria or whether you have a sissification/autogynephelia fetish. Unless, of course, you're never going to get a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, because you don't have it and simply get off on invading women's privacy/have a fetish etc. Self-ID benefits those who want to keep their penis - but if you have gender dysphoria, why would you want to keep your penis? TV propaganda such as the ITV series 'Butterfly' would have us believe that those with gender dysphoria hate their genitals so much they'll try to cut them off with pieces of broken glass. It seems like self-ID only benefits fetishists and misogynists, so why are politicians never challenged on how exactly self-ID is supposed to benefit transgender people, why are they so insistent on self-ID as the only possible route to trans rights? Are they just woefully ignorant about autogynephelia/transvestism/sissification etc? These fetishes are as old as the hills, why is everyone pretending they suddenly don't exist? Or for that matter, pretending that predatory men don't exist? Female politicians are subjected to the very worst kinds of misogyny on social media, so how can they be so incredibly naive about how misogynistic men and opportunists will use self-ID as a vendetta against women? It doesn't seem that self-ID actually help genuine cases, only those who would normally be refused a GRC because they have shown they're insincere/have other mental health problems/trolling etc.

Yeah, and people don't tend to recover from autism and asthma do they?

Social contagion effects in teenagers are well known

encourage your child to wrongly make decisions about transitioning physically

Why is this a decision for a child to make and given that you can see this was an obvious error in this case, how did her doctors manage to fuck up so badly? They are meant to be the experts, not the kids.

Greater awareness and acceptance leads to increased incidence in most diseases

Is this a disease? How is it diagnosed? Why does it appear in clusters amongst school children with mental health issues? Why are the people who have been treating these kids resigning and whistleblowing?

I think Dr David Bell raised the important question whether transgender medical intervention was iatrogenic at the Manchester 'Make More Noise' event.

'Detransitioners are living proof the practices surrounding ‘trans kids’ need be questioned
Detransitioners are living proof that the practices surrounding “trans youth” need be questioned, yet their experiences are too often ignored.'

(extract)
Bell even finds the terminology “puberty blockers” to be “targeted,” as it sugar-coats what he describes as “potent drugs” that are inevitably accompanied by additional consequential effects.

“The body isn’t like a video recorder that you can just put on pause,” he said.

Medical professionals feel stifled in their ability to to talk about these issues. O’Malley’s documentary, which aired in November 2018, was pivotal in exposing this reality, as therapists and a handful of other medical professionals voiced their concerns anonymously to escape being labelled “transphobic.”

Ryan expressed empathy towards her fellow researchers. She said they are battling “immense pressure” to alleviate the suffering of patients struggling with dysphoria and affirm patients’ gender identity without question or intervention. Hutchinson, who worked in GIDS for five years, noted that clinicians can be accused of transphobia for merely “talking about evidence.”

“But how can it be transphobic to ask for better standards of care for this client group? I want better standards of care for kids with gender dysphoria,” she said, to loud applause.

Another former GIDS employee in the audience claimed that medical experts face both external and internal pressures. Most feel prohibited from talking about the possibility of desistence and detransition entirely. Bell agreed: manoeuvrability to investigate and conduct research on desistence seems almost impossible when the trans movement “has penetrated into clinical services,” and cannot be questioned, challenged, or exposed. Bell said the extent to which gender ideology has “the ears of politicians right up the highest level” as well as control over much of the media was remarkable. “It has sort of gone through unquestioned,” he said. O’Malley considered that this has only served the best interests of “non-experts” with a lot of social media followers, essentially allowing them to “lead the room” and act with impunity." (continues)
www.feministcurrent.com/2020/01/09/detransitioners-are-living-proof-the-practices-surrounding-trans-kids-need-be-questioned/

In the US, they reckon like 1/60 are on the spectrum.

Most autistic kids I've met are far less confined to gender based stereotypes but ive never met any who wish to transition. However, I can imagine that having more room to explore as your parents are more accepting of your rejection of societal norms would mean you find that less typical identities are more fitting to you as an individual.

So basically it is likely that the fact autistic kids are less likely to respond to societal norms and their parents are more likely to be accepting of this, they find that an LGBT+ label describes their identity sooner than other people.

For the trans people I've met, puberty has been horrific. And not in the same way puberty can be depressing and horrific for anyone. I've referred many a child for therapy around coping with the normal turmoil of puberty. I've had 2 young women who were absolutely phobic of their periods. I've had young people who hate their bodies. Again, nothing to do with gender. When you have someone in genuine turmoil about their gender identity, it's completely different. They will talk specifically about that.

In the US, they reckon like 1/60 are on the spectrum.

Who they who reckon like?

Is it still half term by the way?

GEEpEe For god's sake, do you know nothing about autism? Those on the spectrum will fixate on things, particularly if it's something that they think eases their distress and feelings of being overwhelmed. I have no doubt many are traumatized by periods, but the answer isn't to shove medication down their necks to leave them sterile. Autistic women need to be treated with compassion and understanding and to be taught coping mechanisms to cope with the reality of their bodies, rather than to be butchered to fit a male body. I find your it disgusting that you would treat autistic women so flippantly, you are a danger to your patients.

But then I'd have to believe that the majority of autistic women who present with these symptoms are referred to gender clinics. They aren't.

Look you're grasping at straws here.

Theres a reason these stories only make it in the Daily Mail.

... and yes, losing my ability to type coherently, because I'm f*ing angry at how autistic women are treated in society. This converting them into 'men' just as some progress was being made with more and more women are finally getting their autism diagnosis, often after years of suffering with a misdiagnosis, is really the most brutal kind of treatment of gender non-conforming women in our society. I wish more people could see this.

Today's Times:
'Gender Recognition Act changes halted after child fears'
Steven Swinford, Deputy Political Editor

(extract)
Ministers are expected to drop plans to make it easier for people to change their gender amid concerns about the impact on children.

The government will formally respond to a public consultation on updating the Gender Recognition Act by the summer. The consultation, which was launched in 2018 by Theresa May, proposed to change the law so that people would be able to officialy transition simply by making a declaration of their gender.

At present they have to receive a medical diagnosis, appear before a specialist panel and wait for two years for legal recognition of their new gender. They also have to pay a £140 fee.

The proposals to change the Gender Recognition Act have met with criticism from some feminist groups, whose members are concerned about the prospect of trans people being able to use single-sex spaces.

Ministers are also concerned about the impact the proposals could have on children, who are being helped to transition while still developing their “decision-making capabilities”. (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d19ad4fe-54d9-11ea-a869-24971f770bf3?shareToken&wgu=270525_54264_15823654300007_a7832d87ab&wgexpiry=1590141429&utm_source=planit&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_content=22278

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3829568-GRC-changes-dropped

The statistic I mentioned came from the Tavistock itself, not the Daily Mail, you patronising little turd.

4000% increase in girls identifying as boys, 30% of which are autistic. And as a GP that doesn't induce any kind of professional curiosity on your part? You need to be struck off (except I can't actually believe you are a GP, unless you're one of those gaining financial benefit by prescribing puberty blockers online).

This converting them into 'men' just as some progress was being made with more and more women are finally getting their autism diagnosis, often after years of suffering with a misdiagnosis, is really the most brutal kind of treatment of gender non-conforming women in our society. I wish more people could see this.

Upfield I think more & more people are seeing & undertanding this.

The harm that has been done to autistic young women & girls by gender clinics & trans rights activists is immense.

Public awareness is growing daily. The inquiries & judicial reviews will be evidence based.

The systemic Safeguarding & Duty of Care failures will be seen regardless of the determination of online disruptors.

Doctors can be foolish, ignorant and downright nasty little specimens too. They aren’t - even some still seem to have the old mindset - gods.

Yes. I believe this person is a GP. So is Adrian Harrop.

Fair point!

So is Adrian Harrop.

GP & online disruptor?

Didn't take long for the mask of civility to slip, did it? Now we're just silly little women obsessing over stories in The Daily Mail that our ladybrains are too delicate to cope with. I'm off for a wank to cure my 'hysteria'.

How can I tell an adult woman whether not being able to conceive is in her best interests?

If she is there, and asking for it, ASSUME IT IS IN HER BEST FUCKING INTERESTS TO STOP BEING ABLE TO GET PREGNANT.

Permanently? When she has no children, is in her early twenties, and has depression that may affect her judgement? When there are many effective contraceptives that you can offer her that allow her not to get pregnant now but still change her mind later?

I think you've mistaken "what people want" for "what they need".

I think you've mistaken "what people want" for "what they need".
I imagine he'd be great for drug seekers too.

If my medical practitioners did affirmation-only treatment with me:

• I'd be on lithium for bipolar that I don't have because I mistook periods of remission for hypomania.
• I'd be sterilised when a coil does the same job.
• I'd have had a risky lumbar diskectomy for something better managed with physiotherapy.

Absolutely, GPs should refer to specialists when a patient's symptoms are beyond their expertise. But neither the GP nor the specialists should not practice an affirmation-only approach, regardless of field.

There's an interesting conversation on another thread about the abuse of NHS staff. Imnobody4 says: "Lots of causes [of lack of respect for NHS staff] but one is the change from a citizen culture to a customer culture. Customer is always right. You're there to provide a service. I pay your wages sense of entitlement."

GEEpEe you don't have to treat your patients like customers and assume that they always right to provide good care, and sometimes you provide the best care by saying "no, try this instead".

What you're proposing is illegal and cruel and most importantly, lacks any factual basis.

What I am proposing? Did you tag the wrong person in this post?

Here are some of the things I asked you (and you failed to reply):
you've said that you don't have the expertise to diagnose someone with gender dysphoria, so how would you know that a person who says that they have this condition actually does, and that they are therefore a 'trans person'?

What makes a person who is perfectly happy with their body and/or has interests stereotypical of their own sex and/or presents as someone of their own sex 'trans' in your view?

In the context of a heterosexual woman who presents in a feminine way but self-identifies as a gay man:
Do you not find this denial of reality troubling in any way and feel the need to help her to discover why she is denying reality?

What exactly do you think I am 'proposing' with these questions, and what is "illegal and cruel and most importantly, lacks any factual basis" in what I have said?

Keira's story is very interesting. She just wanted to wear trousers and avoid dresses and an overbearing mother with archaic views of gender forced her into traditionally female clothing and when she expressed reluctance, asked her if she was homosexual or trans.

@GEEpEe you seem to be on the point of understanding the feminist argument here.

Of course if children don't fit the gender stereotypes for their sex they should not be prevented from being who they are. A boy who shows some characteristics which are stereotypically defined as 'feminine' or a girl with some 'masculine' traits. But if you are really a medical doctor you know that people can't change sex.

Why do you think it is better for a feminine boy or a masculine girl to change their body into a poor approximation of that of the opposite sex rather than accept that such gender non-conforming people exist, and should be allowed to exist?

If they are truly distressed by their sexed body (rather than society's expectations around how someone of their sex should behave), this should be treated in the same way as any other body dysmorphic condition - with mental health support to attempt to reconcile the person with the body they have.

What I can say is that the person's issues seem to be around gender identification which they can tell me themselves and I can refer to people who can help them with the rest.

GEEpEe, you have said that you are not qualified to determine whether this is the case, yet you accept the self-diagnosis of the patient, who might be a deeply troubled individual and probably has no medical training at all, as to the cause of their distress?

Do you accept the self-diagnosis of your patients in all other areas as well? Do you assume they know more about anything that you are not an 'expert' on? In particular do you really think that people suffering mental distress are capable to self-diagnosis?

Oh, self-dx would be fun! My dh, for instance, would have been treated for colon cancer which he didn't have, a brain haemorrhage he didn't have and a brain tumour he didn't have - and that's all I can remember off the top of my head. There have been more.

So I haven’t got alopecia? Well blow me...