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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'Virtue signalling coward' Labour's war escalates

225 replies

BovaryX · 16/02/2020 08:21

The Labour war over the trans pledge has escalated, with Rebecca LB et al accused of virtue signalling cowardice. Also, the decision to allow self identified 'women' onto women's only Labour shortlists is going to be legally challenged. Labour have created this absurdity and now the laughable contradictions will be exposed to public scrutiny and ridicule.

Labour’s civil war over transgender rights descended into even deeper bitterness last night after one of Jeremy Corbyn’s senior aides called leadership hopeful Rebecca Long Bailey a ‘virtue-signalling coward’ for threatening to expel feminists from the party – and a crowdfunded legal challenge was mounted against the party

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Bagofoldbones · 16/02/2020 08:26

They are an absolute joke. No one I know in RL thinks this is sane! There is one clear front runner - Keir

Boris must be laughing his socks of right now when there is so much important issues and labour women are tying them selfs in knots of this.

Way to go Labour women. Idiots

BovaryX · 16/02/2020 08:31

I think this point made by Mr. Stuart is worth highlighting. I don't understand why RBL and Lisa Nandy have signed this absurd pledge nor why they think witch hunt is a good look for allegedly serious politicians.

Mr Stuart said that Ms Long Bailey and Ms Nandy were effectively fuelling that problem, telling them: ‘You are a danger, especially to the young lesbians whose bullying and harassment you are now licensing. So you’re not getting my vote.’

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Lordfrontpaw · 16/02/2020 08:35

Strange days indeed when the voices of reason at the Mail, the telegraph and (sometimes) the times.

Mockersisrightasusual · 16/02/2020 08:35

Expect some rowing back from Wrong-Daily and Nandy-Panderer.

Be nice to see Starmer stand up and take this on, but chances are he'll waffle and hide behind his fluent legalese.

Lordfrontpaw · 16/02/2020 08:38

No - they knew what they were doing. This wasn’t putting 2 sugars in someone’s tea instead of 1 by accident.

No back-pedalling - actually they can’t win. Stand by it and it shows they hate women, back pedal and it shows they haven’t an original thought in their head and would vote for making everyone paint their backsides blue today if #bluebumsunday was trending.

Mockersisrightasusual · 16/02/2020 08:40

Expel potentially tens of thousands of members?

Pair of quarterwits didn't even read it.

BovaryX · 16/02/2020 08:41

Expect some rowing back from Wrong-Daily and Nandy-Panderer
Grin
I think that the pledge was such an epically bad idea and it makes them look like authoritarian zealots. I think you are right about Keir Starmer, I reckon he will say nothing. But it's good to see there is some pushback against this from within Labour.

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Floisme · 16/02/2020 08:41

Starmer's as cowardly as Long Bailey and Nandy, just a little bit smarter.

I thought the bit about Dawn Butler agreeing the manifesto was funny.
Mr Stuart revealed that in a private meeting to agree policies before the Election, Butler had voted for the very policies she later criticised.

BovaryX · 16/02/2020 08:41

and it shows they haven’t an original thought in their head and would vote for making everyone paint their backsides blue today if #bluebumsunday was trending.
Grin

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Doyoumind · 16/02/2020 08:44

I do seriously dislike the fact that it's the DM that keeps covering these issues and the connotations that has for the GC argument but Labour are just going way too far with all of this now and I am seriously disliking the party I had happily voted for all my life until recently.

BovaryX · 16/02/2020 08:47

I do seriously dislike the fact that it's the DM that keeps covering these issues and the connotations that has for the GC argument
I think the fact that the premier left wing newspaper routinely avoids publishing news which conflicts with its narrow, blinkered ideology is a much bigger problem. Thankfully the Times, the Telegraph, the Mail and the Spectator are reporting on these issues.

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NearlyGranny · 16/02/2020 08:50

Is it actually possible that, of the four candidates, only Starmer sat down and read the pledge with his entire attention?

Bagofoldbones · 16/02/2020 09:06

I really believe that a huge part of labour have now turned their sights on to the millennials and uni goers instead of people over the age of 30. I think they don’t actually care if they lose voters now as They are playing a long game and betting on where the trend will go.

My dd is 24 and couldn’t give to two shits about protecting women’s rights she’s has the privilege of living in a society that protects her because we already fought for them.

She was was gobsmacked when I told her men could legally rape their wives yet the 80s could be a thousand years ago to her - whilst for me it seems like yesterday.

It’s really worrying that these women are purposely aligning them self’s with the next generation. This was done on purpose. No high profile MP doesn’t read any document regarding trans activism with out careful consideration. Dangerous

dianebrewster · 16/02/2020 09:15

Lachlan Stuart was one of the labour men who came to the WPUK meeting in Brighton - where the young labour / TRA rent-a-mob tried to drown out discussion. He experienced first hand what women have been going through to meet and discuss the issues. He totally gets it.

SW16 · 16/02/2020 09:22

I was so looking forward to Labour ripping it up and starting again as a credible party with credible policies and a credible leader.

We are in the brink of the biggest economic challenge since we had to find WW2. In the hands of a corrupt elite. And this is the hill Labour choose to hang their flag on.

They don’t need to expel me.

testing987654321 · 16/02/2020 09:27

My dd is 24 and couldn’t give to two shits about protecting women’s rights she’s has the privilege of living in a society that protects her because we already fought for them.

Oh dear, she will have a rude awakening at some point.

Lordfrontpaw · 16/02/2020 09:30

She will wake up when she sees how it actually works in the real world.

ThrowingGoodAfterBad · 16/02/2020 09:32

I can see why so many people were pissed off at Labour around the time of the general election now.

We need left-wing economics from a party seriously interested in running the country and solving its many problems.

Not this shower of gobshites. Pathetic, the lot of them, and I'm not excluding Sir Keir from that. We need a return to reality. People who refuse to accept and name reality have no chance of actually dealing with it.

thecatfromjapan · 16/02/2020 09:44

I think so, testing.

At the moment, these women see older women as living relics- embodying a past/history that has been left behind, and statues to fossilised political beliefs.

They don't realise that it's not history - it's a future waiting for them as they age and accrue life experiences (especially life experiences that bring them up against the cold, hard wall of structural discrimination).

There's a real unwillingness to believe that thinking takes place in time, is done within material bodies, and is shaped by that material body living through and reflecting on lived experience.

Thinking is not done once, then frozen, nor is it simply a found object - a bag you find in the street; a book taken down from a shelf - and it is seldom done in a unitary fashion.

Despite what centuries of people have told us, thinking is often hashed our in concert with other people. And that is particularly true of feminist thinking.

All of this is to say that the attempt to dismiss the women criticising the TRA position as frozen relics of the thinking of a by-gone age is woeful.

We draw on life experience, we use that to evolve our thinking in the present, for the present, and for the future, and there are many of us.

This age-based division is poisonous.

It really is a divide and conquer thing. And it's an attempt to silence a lot of thoughtful, experienced, and often accomplished women.

It cuts younger women off from that source of power. It acts to remove women from positions of influence that they have fought to achieve.

And it does that by promising younger women (predominantly younger women) that, actually, things aren't that bad; the days of brutal struggle are long gone; they can achieve equality without compromising the desire to be 'nice' or coming into conflict with men (& being punished),

And, of course, there is the spectacle of what happens to -even relatively powerful - women who don't comply.

Cwenthryth · 16/02/2020 09:45

RLB is on Marr now. Wonder if they decide to touch this. He’s starting with ‘continuity Corbyn’.

reginafelangee · 16/02/2020 09:45

The vast majority of labour members, like the vast majority of people are just not interested in this issue.

It's a bubble issue for some very angry people on the internet and most people are oblivious to it.

There's plenty of warring in the Labour Party but this isn't in the top 50 of the things people are arguing about.

thecatfromjapan · 16/02/2020 09:47

Anyway, I love #bluearseSunday.

I also suspect Keir Starmer was the only one who read that pledge properly.

Which says everything, sadly.

And there is something deeply, deeply funny about how it's biting them.

They are all mouthing away about 'winning back lost voters' and moving beyond being a Party of Millenial graduates and students - and they do this.

Idiots.

SW16 · 16/02/2020 09:48

ThrowingGoodAfterBad
Exactly. Equality is important. It needs to be embedded systemically into the way a country runs.

Which is not the same as running the country on the basis of a bundle of Identity Politics.

I can see that the current frustration for many is a signal of the failure of successive governments to address inequality for many groups and communities. We need stateswomen and statesmen able to create and lead a country where we are all citizens.

Not a band of placard waving Student Union lobbyists scrabbling for the latest single cause.

It is pathetic.

thecatfromjapan · 16/02/2020 09:51

regina

Well ... yes and no.

It's significant enough to have come up in the Ashcroft report into why Labour lost the GE.

So that makes the pledge just nuts.

And, as we keep saying, the pledge effectively labels Labour's manifesto as transphobic.

It's really crap. At the very least, they are incompetent. At most , they are signalling a belief that Labour under them will be a vanguard Party: leading the way in public opinion; going far further than the last manifesto.

It's.a.mess.