Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Flip

1 2 3 4

Original poster

Labour Leadership Candidates on Newsnight

83 replies

MarSeeAh · 12/02/2020 23:21

Not one of them gives a toss about women’s rights!

Not one of them is prepared to say that biological reality is, well, reality.

For fuck’s sake!

OP posts:

TinselAngel · 12/02/2020 23:22

And I just finally left the Labour Party.

StandWithYou · 12/02/2020 23:24

Me too

MaMaLa321 · 12/02/2020 23:24

sorry - I've just started another thread on this.
Were Women's Rights mentioned? At all?

GlomOfNit · 12/02/2020 23:24

Watching this with a sick feeling in my stomach ... I desperately wanted KS to say SOMETHING that indicates he doesn't really believe the koolaid line ... but no.

None of them are going to say anything remotely gender critical, are they? Regardless of how they feel.

I had to restrain myself from lobbing something at the telly when R L-B was speaking.

Poota · 12/02/2020 23:30

Posted this on another and this one appeared as I was posting, so I'll add it here -

RLB and Lisa Nandy 100% behind that totalitarian pledge - RLB for waffle reasons, Nandy because she has a trans constituent (presumably she has no women constituents who need support)

Starmer and Thornberry much more careful - Thornberry saying TWAW, but pleading for people stop screeching about hate, and that seemed in reference to WPUK and LGB alliance and she wont be signing the pledge. Starmer much, much more careful.

But all, every one, framing it as a question about trans rights and completely ignoring the issue being about women.

Poota · 12/02/2020 23:32

Oh, and RLB said that talking about biological sex could be transphobic if it was meant in a transphobic way, and that each such instance of talking about biology would be assessed on a case by case basis for transphobia.

I was so depressed about Nandy, who I have always been quite impressed by and liked most of her other comments.

GladAllOver · 12/02/2020 23:35

As I just said on the other thread, it's sad that it has to be a man who is more thoughtful about women's welfare.

Thelnebriati · 12/02/2020 23:36

each such instance of talking about biology would be assessed on a case by case basis for transphobia

This sounds like a sinister reversal of the wording in the Equality Act.

Imnobody4 · 12/02/2020 23:37

twitter.com/EmilyThornberry/status/1227733218494906369?s=09
Emily has had second thoughts and signed. Was she waiting to see how KS jumped?

womanaf · 12/02/2020 23:37

Every last bastarding one of them. 😢

Poota · 12/02/2020 23:38

Ffs Thornberry

TinselAngel · 12/02/2020 23:38

As I just said on the other thread, it's sad that it has to be a man who is more thoughtful about women's welfare.

I don't think he is more thoughtful about women's welfare, he's just bright enough to realise there's two sides to the debate. He's not willing to risk coming out for women's rights though, so fuck him.

Doyoumind · 12/02/2020 23:41

Also watched. I'm glad the issue got a mention but it didn't make me feel in any way positive.

RLB clearly not affected by #expelme. LN more interested in one trans constituent than half her constituents who are female. ET cleverer in raising concerns about the word 'hate' but not much better. I was hoping for something positive from KS but no.

Overall, I didn't feel much different at the end of the programme about the candidates than I did at the beginning. I really dislike RLB and didn't rate LN.

BluePheasant · 12/02/2020 23:42

Like so many others they are so desperate to come across as 100% inclusive that they are prepared to ignore common sense and women's rights. Labour have lost my vote for the foreseeable future. It's bloody depressing tbh.

lanadelgrey · 12/02/2020 23:42

R BL has downed the look aid, Nandy thinks one person makes the weather on the issue and wants to be nice Starmer and Thornberry are both savvy enough to realise there’s a nasty iceberg below the surface but haven’t quite worked out it’s shape or size and hope desperately that a sound bite will suffice. I don’t think either have mixed much with TRAs or have many dealings with ordinary voters so they’ll be in for a shock.

Poota · 12/02/2020 23:43

Yeah, Starmer is simply keeping cards close to his chest. He said a few of the right woke slogans ('trans rights are human rights' - well, duh, but it's not a human right to force everyone to believe you are the opposite sex) but I heard nothing about women and girl's rights at all. They are all fully paid up. Starmer just knows he's the front runner and has no need to shore up his position with posturing for momentumites.

ChickenonaMug · 12/02/2020 23:44

Kier Starmer's answer was very similar to the one he gave on his Mumsnet Webchat, the other day.

Rebecca Long-Bailey's answer saying that she thought that talking about biological sex could be transphobic was very concerning.

Emily Thornberry appeared to have very slightly thought about the issue more deeply since her Mumsnet Webchat

IfNot · 12/02/2020 23:49

it's sad that it has to be a man who is more thoughtful about women's welfare.

Was he?I just watched it and he said something like "the GRA was a step in the right direction, now we need to carry in down that road" and "trans rights are human rights" even though the interviewer kept going "and..women's rights?" I have gone right off him, smug self serving git.
Emily Thornberry said TWAW/TMAM although it seemed clear she didn't believe a word of it, and then expressed concern about calling "certain groups" hate groups. If anything she is probably the only one who gets the issue but she's a politician so will say anything she thinks will get her elected.
Lisa Nandy seemed to think that being kind to her trans friend is an excuse to support legislation that will affect every girl and woman in the land without their consent, and RLB said that talking about biological sex could be trans phobic if done in a transphobic way, which is a completely circular statement..
Fuck. So so depressing.

IfNot · 12/02/2020 23:51

He's not willing to risk coming out for women's rights though, so fuck him.

YY this! I'm tired and rambling!

Tanith · 12/02/2020 23:52

I have no intention of leaving the Labour party to the likes of RLB, which I assume is the purpose of that ridiculous pledge they’ve scavenged together.

We need a credible opposition in this country, more than ever. At the moment, that looks like KS and it looks as though he is at least canny enough not to get bogged down by all this.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/02/2020 23:58

each such instance of talking about biology would be assessed on a case by case basis for transphobia

Wow. Words fail me.

Poota · 13/02/2020 00:10

Yeah,let's be clear, Starner said the GRA was a good piece of legislation that didn't go far enough, and the reason he wants everyone to calm down a bit us because he thinks it's the best way of going further with GRA reforms.

That's not a pro-woman position.

miri1985 · 13/02/2020 00:11

If Jennifer James wins her all womens shortlist case then any labour leader who has signed the aforementioned pledge would have to scrap AWS, right? If TWAW then you couldn't have something that excludes them.
How could a debate even be held about keeping it if its forbidden to discuss biology

chilling19 · 13/02/2020 00:13

We don't need to worry, Labour won't be in power for years after this final nail in the coffin. I, and several other adult human females, resigned this morning. I think they are finished as a party.

womanaf · 13/02/2020 00:22

We don't need to worry
We really do - a functioning opposition would be useful.

Flip

1 2 3 4

Swipe left for the next trending thread