Labour Leadership Candidates on Newsnight

[MarSeeAh]

Not one of them gives a toss about women’s rights!

Not one of them is prepared to say that biological reality is, well, reality.

For fuck’s sake!

It’s a small comfort Starmer has signed the barking pledge but a slightly less bad one. He is desperately trying to keep his head down so as not to get pillaged by TRAs.

I’m disappointed in him. I rejoined the party to vote for him but I think I will leave again. Assuming of course they don’t expel me first for wrongthink

all he's doing is making sure that he doesn't potentially get sued for libel. He IS a lawyer, after all. But the other document is just as bad for women.

The text of Starmer's pledge. Odd that he's found a different one.

'Ten pledges to LGBT+ Labour members and the wider LGBT+ community:

1. Fully inclusive LGBT+ Sex and Relationships Education for all children in the UK.

I will campaign for: greater training and support for teachers; buffer zones to protect children, parents and staff from protests; and the removal of any exemptions for non-council maintained schools and an end of the parental right to remove children from these classes.

1. Trans rights and reforming the Gender Recognition Act.

I will campaign to reform the Gender Recognition Act to introduce a self-declaration process and for the introduction of legal recognition for non-binary gender identities. I believe that trans women are women, that trans men are men, and that non-binary gender identities are valid and should be respected.

1. Tackling the rise in anti-LGBT+ hate crime.

I will campaign for a change in the law on anti-LGBT+ hate crimes to bring them in line with hate crimes based on race and faith, by making them aggravated offences.

1. Healthcare system that supports the LGBT+ community.

I will campaign for the provision and funding needed for: the full rollout of free PrEP across the UK; IVF treatment for lesbians, bisexual women, trans men and non-binary people; the reduction of waiting times for trans people to access hormones and surgery; and specific LGBT+ mental health services.

1. Supporting LGBT+ homeless people.

I will campaign to ensure all plans to tackle the homelessness and rough sleeping crisis in the UK have specific provision tailored to understanding the needs and issues unique to LGBT+ homeless people who make up a disproportionate number of the current homeless people in the UK.

1. Ending Conversion Therapy.

I will campaign for a complete ban on the archaic practice of conversion therapy throughout the UK, which believes that LGBT+ people can be ‘cured’. This is a harmful and dangerous practice.

1. LGBT+ rights globally.

I will campaign to reform the cruel and inhumane rules for LGBT+ people seeking asylum in the UK and will advocate for the appointment of an international envoy for LGBT+ rights.

1. LGBT+ Leadership within Labour.

I commit to the implementation of a Leadership Programme for LGBT+ members as recommended in the democracy review, such as the Bernie Grant BAME & Jo Cox Women in Leadership Programmes to increase diverse LGBT+ representation. I will review why certain LGBT+ and intersectional minorities are underrepresented at all tiers of internal party democracy.

1. Fully Independent Complaints process.

I will introduce a fully independent complaints process to tackle incidences of homophobia, biphobia, transphobia and all forms of discrimination within the Labour party.

10. Keeping LGBT+ Labour at the heart of decision making. I fully commit to consulting LGBT+ Labour, as Labour’s official LGBT+ affiliate, when making political and policy decisions that directly affect the LGBT+ community.'

Yep, Kier Starmer is covering his arse that's all.
He is still pledging to back self ID and he still claims to not be able to tell the different between men and women.
Except for relationship purposes probably, eh Kier?
Oh, and he knows which sex to fuck over because he thinks we don't matter.

Just as bad as the other one, really. Just doesn't mention WPUK or LGB Alliance by name, so it's just a soft focus diktat.

Basically, Starmer has just built himself a slightly less wonky fence to sit on, while still quietly throwing women under that bus.

Oh, and given some of the unbelievably awful things they are teaching children in schools, the end of the parental veto is pretty scary. They can bloody well arrest me if they think I am going to agree to my dc being taught that people can choose their sex, or that porn is fiiiiine.
The establishment has been captured by the likes of Peter Tatchell (of children can enjoy relations with adults fame) so fuck that, no thank you. As for "conversion" of LGB youth? Hello? WTF do they think transing kids is?!

That's very disappointing about Starmer.
Unfortunately one can only leave a Party once.

Sorry, ranting. I'm angrier than I thought I would be!

Exactly. The only real difference is it's not quite so obviously totalitarian and it isn't libellous.

They still, every one of them, think they can fuck women over to climb the greasy pole. Same as it ever was. With added WTF?

• 6. Ending Conversion Therapy. I will campaign for a complete ban on the archaic practice of conversion therapy throughout the UK, which believes that LGBT+ people can be ‘cured’. This is a harmful and dangerous practice.*

You really should have a hard think about that one, Sir Keir. Look into how converting homosexuals - particularly lesbian girls - is being achieved nowadays. There are brave young women who can tell you how harmful and dangerous it is.

Can we remember that it's the Tories who introduced this policy of self ID?
I'm in no way condoning Labour & I'm now politically homeless,but I think it's important that we see the long game the Tories have played here.
Conflict resolution always has a sticky mid point.

Can we remember that it's the Tories who introduced this policy of self ID? I'm in no way condoning Labour & I'm now politically homeless,but I think it's important that we see the long game the Tories have played here.

But the point is, they know they (well, that stupid woman who introduced it) fucked up massively and are now burying it as fast as they can, while Labour are getting JCBs in to dig it up.

I don't think the Tories are playing any sort of long game, they want nothing to do with it now and when Labour finally end up eating themselves, I doubt we'll ever see it again.

I think it's a fair point. I am certain the government is being lobbied very hard and it does concern me that they won't publish the consultation results and that they keep talking, albeit vaguely m, about making an announcement 'soon'.

Hopefully they're watching this shit show unfold and realising they had a lucky escape but I wish we knew who they were talking to.

and specific LGBT+ mental health services.

So. There can be specific lgbt services but not specific women-only services.

(And, side note: when are the + in the lgbt+ going to start shouting about how the TRA/wokesters are +phobic because they don’t list the rest of the +es individually?)

My suspicion was always that the Tories thought it was an easy way of going, ‘see look, we’re progressive’. Then they saw.

Yes, exactly this.

it does concern me that they won't publish the consultation results and that they keep talking, albeit vaguely m, about making an announcement 'soon'.

That's a really good reason for me to contact my (conservative, anti-GRA) MP again. That and the pledge. We're just on tenterhooks waiting. If they're going to kill it, right now would be a fantastic time to announce and sweep up thousands of GC people running away from Labour!

I think the Tories are playing the long game. They haven't buried self ID at all; Maria Miller and Justine Greening pushed the agenda and castigated women who objected, which is why we are at this point now. They are currently allowing it to become policy while at the same time saying very little about it.

I think it's a fair point. I am certain the government is being lobbied very hard and it does concern me that they won't publish the consultation results and that they keep talking, albeit vaguely m, about making an announcement 'soon'.

I suspect (but can't be sure obvs) that they don't want any of this to become a Tory Party issue as it was in the past. By saying and doing nothing it keeps the issue and related negative public feeling firmly in Labour's court.

They could help women and children by speaking out sensibly but if that's not in their interest they won't. I'm not under the illusion that burying it is anything to do with caring about the issues. Currently they're neither endorsing self ID or preventing it's ill effects.

Reading that pledge that Starmer signed, it's like something the Moonies might get you to sign, isn't it? It's totally cult-like. This mantra that they repeat over and over again is so sinister - all thought removed from it:

"I believe that trans women are women, that trans men are men, and that non-binary gender identities are valid and should be respected."

Oh for fucks sake, Starmer. I am utterly furious.

If there was any chance of changing Labour from within this illegal and defamatory statement would not have been celebrated and signed.

Women have sex based rights enshrined in equality law. You are not 'getting ahead of the law' by removing them, you are breaking the law.

If the TRAs were serious about all this, they’d be demanding that Boris Johnson and his Ministers declare their position and screaming from the rooftops about their alleged transphobia if they didn’t.

That this isn’t happening tells me a good deal about the politics behind them.

After all, who is it with the real chance to do anything about the GRA in the next 5 years?

Realistically they don't need self ID to become actual law right now because Stonewall et al have forced their own illegal versions across the board into all the spaces where women and girls will be affected.

Rather than relying on the current government to do something about EA law being broken re the protected characteristic of sex our only option is to keep bringing legal challenges.

We'll win some and lose some but the objective is to make schools, businesses, LA's etc... have a rethink about the ramifications of not upholding the EA. They've all capitulated because they fear legal consequences from Stonewall and others.

We need to push it so they also fear repercussions from women/parents. At that point we might actually start seeing fairer policies that respect everyone and recognise the difference between sex and gender.

As long as the current gov don't remove sex as a protected characteristic (and I don't think they will) this is our best shot.

ovaHere good post that I agree with.