Labour Leadership Candidates on Newsnight

[MarSeeAh]

Not one of them gives a toss about women’s rights!

Not one of them is prepared to say that biological reality is, well, reality.

For fuck’s sake!

[Yesyesitsme]

Share token didn't work unfortunately...

[Lamahaha]

Times article by Janice Turner:

Hopefully this is a share token, never done it before:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labours-trans-pledge-says-anyone-who-disagrees-is-a-bigot-trlh72r0l

[Tanith]

“ What worries me is that we're so busy talking about Labour - and I'm as engrossed as anyone - that we may not be watching the people who are actually in power.”

That’s what I mean.
It’s a strategy that’s worked time and again in the past few years for so many groups. Scream, stamp and make as much noise as you can about something that doesn’t make a difference while quietly sliding in the important stuff that does.

Then, you look at the bigger picture: what are they really achieving? They’re achieving the complete paralysis of any opposition to the right-wing groups in power all over the world because, as demonstrated last year, the general public really isn’t bothered either way. They think there are more important things to worry about.

We shouldn’t be resigning from parties: we should be joining them and influencing them. It suits these people down to the ground to have any opposition out on a limb with no voice.

[ScrimshawTheSecond]

Floisme, exactly what worries me. Labour used to be the opposition, increasingly they're an irrelevance. I want to know what the government is up to, and just how long that long grass is.

[GladAllOver]

"I believe that trans women are women, that trans men are men, that the Earth is flat, pigs can fly and the moon is made of green cheese"
Is that better?

[leckford]

I don’t understand where all this trans nonsense has come from and why gutless politicians won’t stand up to the nutters. How many trans people are there in the U.K. a couple of thousand? Not enough to make an impact on voting.

Not that I would vote Labour

[Lowhum]

If there is an LGBT leadership programme, then does that mean that the Women’s programme will be for females?

[Floisme]

If the TRAs were serious about all this, they’d be demanding that Boris Johnson and his Ministers declare their position and screaming from the rooftops about their alleged transphobia if they didn’t.
I'm not sure I agree. I think they'll be taking a different approach with this government because accusations like 'hate group' and 'bigot' may not hold as much weight, but I cannot believe they're not talking with them.
What worries me is that we're so busy talking about Labour - and I'm as engrossed as anyone - that we may not be watching the people who are actually in power.

[Joisanofthedales]

ovaHere good post that I agree with.

[OvaHere]

Realistically they don't need self ID to become actual law right now because Stonewall et al have forced their own illegal versions across the board into all the spaces where women and girls will be affected.

Rather than relying on the current government to do something about EA law being broken re the protected characteristic of sex our only option is to keep bringing legal challenges.

We'll win some and lose some but the objective is to make schools, businesses, LA's etc... have a rethink about the ramifications of not upholding the EA. They've all capitulated because they fear legal consequences from Stonewall and others.

We need to push it so they also fear repercussions from women/parents. At that point we might actually start seeing fairer policies that respect everyone and recognise the difference between sex and gender.

As long as the current gov don't remove sex as a protected characteristic (and I don't think they will) this is our best shot.

[Tanith]

If the TRAs were serious about all this, they’d be demanding that Boris Johnson and his Ministers declare their position and screaming from the rooftops about their alleged transphobia if they didn’t.

That this isn’t happening tells me a good deal about the politics behind them.

After all, who is it with the real chance to do anything about the GRA in the next 5 years?

[Thelnebriati]

If there was any chance of changing Labour from within this illegal and defamatory statement would not have been celebrated and signed.

Women have sex based rights enshrined in equality law. You are not 'getting ahead of the law' by removing them, you are breaking the law.

[JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown]

Oh for fucks sake, Starmer. I am utterly furious.

[RoyalCorgi]

Reading that pledge that Starmer signed, it's like something the Moonies might get you to sign, isn't it? It's totally cult-like. This mantra that they repeat over and over again is so sinister - all thought removed from it:

"I believe that trans women are women, that trans men are men, and that non-binary gender identities are valid and should be respected."

[OvaHere]

I think it's a fair point. I am certain the government is being lobbied very hard and it does concern me that they won't publish the consultation results and that they keep talking, albeit vaguely m, about making an announcement 'soon'.

I suspect (but can't be sure obvs) that they don't want any of this to become a Tory Party issue as it was in the past. By saying and doing nothing it keeps the issue and related negative public feeling firmly in Labour's court.

They could help women and children by speaking out sensibly but if that's not in their interest they won't. I'm not under the illusion that burying it is anything to do with caring about the issues. Currently they're neither endorsing self ID or preventing it's ill effects.

[Thelnebriati]

I think the Tories are playing the long game. They haven't buried self ID at all; Maria Miller and Justine Greening pushed the agenda and castigated women who objected, which is why we are at this point now. They are currently allowing it to become policy while at the same time saying very little about it.

[BuzzShitbagBobbly]

it does concern me that they won't publish the consultation results and that they keep talking, albeit vaguely m, about making an announcement 'soon'.

That's a really good reason for me to contact my (conservative, anti-GRA) MP again. That and the pledge. We're just on tenterhooks waiting. If they're going to kill it, right now would be a fantastic time to announce and sweep up thousands of GC people running away from Labour!

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

Yes, exactly this.

[womanaf]

My suspicion was always that the Tories thought it was an easy way of going, ‘see look, we’re progressive’. Then they saw.

[womanaf]

and specific LGBT+ mental health services.

So. There can be specific lgbt services but not specific women-only services.

(And, side note: when are the + in the lgbt+ going to start shouting about how the TRA/wokesters are +phobic because they don’t list the rest of the +es individually?)

[Floisme]

I think it's a fair point. I am certain the government is being lobbied very hard and it does concern me that they won't publish the consultation results and that they keep talking, albeit vaguely m, about making an announcement 'soon'.

Hopefully they're watching this shit show unfold and realising they had a lucky escape but I wish we knew who they were talking to.

[BuzzShitbagBobbly]

Can we remember that it's the Tories who introduced this policy of self ID? I'm in no way condoning Labour & I'm now politically homeless,but I think it's important that we see the long game the Tories have played here.

But the point is, they know they (well, that stupid woman who introduced it) fucked up massively and are now burying it as fast as they can, while Labour are getting JCBs in to dig it up.

I don't think the Tories are playing any sort of long game, they want nothing to do with it now and when Labour finally end up eating themselves, I doubt we'll ever see it again.

[MuthaFunka61]

Can we remember that it's the Tories who introduced this policy of self ID?
I'm in no way condoning Labour & I'm now politically homeless,but I think it's important that we see the long game the Tories have played here.
Conflict resolution always has a sticky mid point.

[ErrolTheDragon]

• 6. Ending Conversion Therapy.
     I will campaign for a complete ban on the archaic practice of conversion therapy throughout the UK, which believes that LGBT+ people can be ‘cured’. This is a harmful and dangerous practice.*
     
     You really should have a hard think about that one, Sir Keir. Look into how converting homosexuals - particularly lesbian girls - is being achieved nowadays. There are brave young women who can tell you how harmful and dangerous it is.

[Poota]

Exactly. The only real difference is it's not quite so obviously totalitarian and it isn't libellous.

They still, every one of them, think they can fuck women over to climb the greasy pole. Same as it ever was. With added WTF?