Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

This is a conversation I had on a dating site

124 replies

FrenchtoEnglish · 03/02/2020 14:46

So, I've been dipping my toes into the waters of OLD. I saw one bloke, lives near me, speaks English (I'm in France). Got chatting. He's a big, bald, rugby player (not really relevant, but just to give you a picture). He said "Let's talk about gender". This is the conversation that followed:

Me: Why do you want to talk about gender? Do you mean male/female traits as a social construct? I'll talk about that with you if you want. Or do you mean something totally different and I've completely missed the point? :-)

Him: Hi! Yes, pretty much. I just feel it’s worthwhile mentioning from the off that I don’t believe either gender has to conform to any particular gender stereotyping. I don’t buy into men having to always be macho. I’m 100% for this greater acceptance of men wearing dresses/make up, etc. I feel gender fluid myself, so I just thought it makes a better ice breaker than what’s your favourite type of pizza!

I also don’t feel women should feel any need to conform to any beauty stereotype either. We’re sold beauty and fashion and expectation from everywhere. I suppose I just want everybody to feel happy in who they are and not have to answer for or pass apology for it.

And finally, I don’t think it’s fair to feel this way and not immediately discuss it on a dating site.

Me: I agree with you! I think that if people were more gender fluid... or we even tried to get rid of gender all together... then we'd all be better off. It is a very complexe issue though and we're a long way from that. I see myself as a feminist... and I have to admit that I do feel that the idea of people self-identifying as men or women might cause problems in the future. Men wearing dresses and make-up or women wearing their hair short and driving a digger is all fine by me... but men "changing sex" (with or without an operation) and then entering women's safe spaces or sporting competitions could get problematic. It's a huge topic of conversation! I just feel as though I don't want what women have fought for to be blocked or hindered in any way. I also don't know what it means to "feel" like a woman. This is a problem for me. Being a woman is being a female, adult human. It's having the XX chromosomes and a vagina/uterus. I don't think we have different brains. I also don't think that children should be encouraged in school to define themselves as a particular gender... I think we're on a slippery slope. I also don't want to have to refer to myself as a "cis-woman" or have to change my language... Anyway, it's a massive topic! But an interesting one!

Him: I would suggest that if men want to enter women’s safe spaces to threaten them, they don’t need to wear a dress to do so. Also, would you not think that providing a safe space to people of an alternative to the binary of gender stereotyping is as important? Would a man who identifies as female, and wears a dress and makeup, etc., not be as equally endangered if not more so if not allowed into certain safe spaces? Your not wanting to refer to yourself as cis-woman belies the privilege you hold and doesn’t make any consideration for those who need the recognition to explain to society what their label means. A trans woman is expected to say she is a trans woman and is held to much higher beauty standards than cis-women. If you’re saying that all women (trans or cis) should be able to just use the title “woman”, I agree with you, but society hasn’t caught up yet which is why referring to ones-self as cis shows compassion, understanding, tolerance and acceptance to those who are not born biologically female. It’s important to understand that no one trans chooses to be trans. And “adult human female” is a trope used by all TERFs to validate their denial of equal rights to trans women. I notice that there is no argument from men about trans men in their spaces and no argument from women about providing support for trans men. It is a massive topic like you say, and I fear we are on very different sides of this history so I’ll say good luck and good bye to you now.

SO.......

I'm not that well-versed on this subject. I have mild opinions, I think (because it's never really effected me). The only thing I feel strongly about is protecting my daughter. I want to raise a capable, strong woman who knows what she wants and will be supported by me. But, after this little episode, I feel a bit weirded out. I do my very best not to gender stereotype (no pink ironing boards for my daughter in this house) and to teach my daughter that she can do anything... and this is the first time I've ever come across anything like this IRL.

WWYD ? Reply to him or not ? He's made me feel a bit anxious to be honest.

OP posts:
Quartz2208 · 03/02/2020 14:53

not reply and be grateful this came out now

AbsintheFriends · 03/02/2020 14:54

If this is his opening conversation on a dating site, I'd be expecting a penchant for lacy knickers and suspenders to be revealed by the third date...

But I wouldn't want to go out with anyone who showed such lack of understanding for women's need for safe spaces, was so upfront in his misogyny and who used the word T**F. So don't reply and be grateful you didn't waste any more time on this person.

74NewStreet · 03/02/2020 14:55

Sweet Jesus...

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 03/02/2020 14:55

Block and consider it a lucky early escape.

thirdfiddle · 03/02/2020 14:56

Don't be anxious, just be glad he signalled from the offset that he's not interested in your views and only interested in lecturing you. Good riddance to this one.

HollowTalk · 03/02/2020 14:57

He might look like a rugby player but he wants to wear a dress and knows he won't pass, but still wants to be able to use female-only spaces. Luckily he spotted that you weren't on the same page as him and has moved on to find someone who will not only accept him as he is, but agree with him that his right to be a woman surpass a woman's right to be a woman.

Lollygaggles · 03/02/2020 14:59

Ugh. Mansplaining, accusatory, sexist. I agree that it's better to know now and be glad of the escape. I do get the anxiety though, it's threatening and intimidating to have a man so openly in denial of your rights and status as a woman.

teawamutu · 03/02/2020 15:04

Tedious, pompous arse. Be glad you won't have to spend even five minutes in his company...

OhHolyJesus · 03/02/2020 15:09

Wow. As PPs say, a lucky escape. The tone alone belies his Male privilege. What a toss pot.

MrsEricBana · 03/02/2020 15:10

Well, interesting exchange, but not ideal if this is a man you were hoping to date. Lucky escape but don't feel anxious, feel relieved.

FrenchtoEnglish · 03/02/2020 15:18

Thank you everyone ! I feel anxious in the same way you might get anxious if you've been involved in an argument with a stranger on the road - a kind of adrenilin rush? I almost don't want him to have the last word. I'm a bit cross.

I live in the middle of nowhere and it's hard to meet people... even friends... I really wasn't expecting this. We're clearly not meant to be, but I don't want him to think he's got the better of me.

OP posts:
Kantastic · 03/02/2020 15:23

I think this is almost the dating site equivalent of a Nigerian scam email - by opening with something so absurd, he's filtering out all but the exceptionally gullible and exploitable. Imagine if you were woke and foolish enough to think this was acceptable flirting.

Speculation not generalisation, monitors: Third date in you'd be pegging him. A month in you'd be pegging him and calling him Stacy. As soon as you'd moved in together he'd spring "I've just realised I've been a woman all along, please support me through my transition" on you - consult the Trans Widows thread for the rest of the fun time you'd be in for.

krustykittens · 03/02/2020 15:23

You have had a very lucky escape, OP. Who cares about him having the last word?

terfsandwich · 03/02/2020 15:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

HollowTalk · 03/02/2020 15:25

He doesn't even have the sense to realise that a transman is incredibly unlikely to pose a threat to men in a men's changing room and is far more likely to be threatened themselves, compared to a transwoman going into a women's changing room. I've never heard of any woman being physically violent towards a transwoman.

But in any case anyone using the terms 'cis' and 'terf' like that wouldn't be someone I'd want to talk to.

terryleather · 03/02/2020 15:26

I'd take a bet that he's sheltering under the edges of the Stonewall trans umbrella...cross dresser would be my guess.

Sexnotgender · 03/02/2020 15:26

Wow...

Lucky escape! Run like the wind from that one.

NeurotrashWarrior · 03/02/2020 15:27

Run for the hills and doesn't look back.

You might find a nice shepherd there, who's never done OLD and knows exactly what sex his Tups are.,

NeurotrashWarrior · 03/02/2020 15:27

Don't.

Arse.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 03/02/2020 15:28

Also a middle aged man being familiar with those terms is in itself a bad sign, imo.

NeurotrashWarrior · 03/02/2020 15:28

(That was a comment about the fact that generally sensible types like farmers know about biological sex. I now realise it could be taken differently Blush)

Kantastic · 03/02/2020 15:29

Tell him he'd look really stupid in an anime wig, and block him.

Okay maybe you shouldn't tell him that in case he's unbalanced, but it's okay to send a quick note to close off the interaction before blocking him, it will take the edge of the interaction. You could just do "thanks for being so upfront, we're clearly not compatible. Bye."

Kantastic · 03/02/2020 15:30

take the edge off the annoyance, that should say.

Hoppinggreen · 03/02/2020 15:30

He likes to wear ladies undies and is hoping you will lend him yours

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 03/02/2020 15:31

Yeah I wouldn't poke the angry ruby player bear given that he lives near you. Block, and blank if you by chance run into him somewhere.

Swipe left for the next trending thread