Lisa Nandy: Trans women are women

[jadefinch]

And when a Conservative MP says women's spaces such as prisons and refuges need to be protected from some men who say they are women, she replies 'not what he says'.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0008jqx?fbclid=IwAR2hx7vFoCI7arspHgCsmu7DdiF9qSDpTezzFSgbYKR8S-9zKejfbOYyJQQ

The question starts at 42 minutes and 48 seconds

FFS.

Bum. I was going to vote for her.

It's good to know where politicians stand. Then we can vote accordingly.

It’s 5/5. All leadership candidates have said it to some degree or another. This was recorded before the GE (when the woke bubble was surely burst, or at least punctured). Only Rebecca Long Bailey has been unequivocally pro self ID in recent weeks (and Jess Phillips did a lot of minimising of concerns, but she’s out now anyway).

I still think Nandy is the best choice, she’s thoughtful and gets the metropolitan city v everywhere else problem that Labour is currently suffering better than the other candidates.
TWAW is part of this problem.

I was tempted by Lisa Nandy but not any more.

Her comments are only from a few weeks ago and they're disgraceful. Particularly her insinuation that people who don't think men who say they are women should be allowed in women's spaces need to be 'educated'.

It's extraordinary how every Labour candidate cannot see how electorally suicidal that narrative is

@Jadefinch

What programme / date was this? I’ve forgotten my BBC password and can’t access via the link. (Annoying when you’ve paid the licence fee!)

It's extraordinary how every Labour candidate cannot see how electorally suicidal that narrative is

It's extraordinary how so many women seem to accept that a man can 'feel like' he is a woman, and they don't see the misogyny in such a declaration.

It's extraordinary how every Labour candidate cannot see how electorally suicidal that narrative is

They are all saying it. Labour is not for women anymore. Treacherous bastards.

The Labour Leaders stance does not matter. Labour are going to be in the wilderness for a long time.

I am 43. I can imagine being near to retirement age before there is another labour government at this rate. Where are the exceptional leaders? The stand out thinkers? The people with the ability to attract swing voters?

They are all just so mediocre so of course they say TWAW because they don't have the ability to make a compelling argument for the complexities of this issue.

So TWAW it is, either because they are dense and believe it (or worse, don't care what happens to vulnerable women) or they don't believe it but don't have the ability to make a case and are terrified of the woke pile up.

Either way, they won't be PM as the non-tribal voters just see uselessness and/or terrifying policies that put women and children at risk.

I mean Rebecca Long Bailey is beyond thick - her response to being asked why she didn't do anything about anti-semitism? "I was too busy working not wining and dining".

Idiots.

Her comments are only from a few weeks ago

The programme aired on the 21st September 2019.

Oh well, I thought she might be the one to lead Labour close to the frontiers of electability. I guess they'll never get there.

It probably doesn't matter, I'm sure Cummings will start implementing a much more efficient form of government than democracy any day soon.

Drat.

I knew her and her family as a child.

I actually don't believe she truly believes this but I do believe politicians have been captured. Or are whipped to have this view.

Actually scrap that, she's seeing through the blanket we don't discriminate/ we hate bigots etc angle.

She says herself in the prog that people her age don't understand it.

If Labour don’t get their act together they may well end up destroying themselves utterly.

Nice bit of ageism thrown in for good measure

She says herself in the prog that people her age don't understand it.

And why do people with fully developed frontal cortexes and a few decades of additional life experience think this is insane love?

Well colour me shocked!! None of them truly believe a man can be a woman - they just know they have to say it. It’s laughable and frightening at the same time

And yes the ageism fucks me off so much. Yes I a 49 year old woman need to have what a woman is explained to me by a woke teenager with blue hair

(Not patronising you there Neuro , that was directly to Rebecca and I don't mean to patronise her either, but the more I hear people come out with this kind of half baked nonsense the more I really do have to bite back the urge to ask if their mummy's there to speak to)

I a 49 year old woman need to have what a woman is explained to me by a woke teenager with blue hair

I do also fight the urge to ask people like Rebecca, these people that don't get it: can we do a quick head count?

What are their jobs? What do they do all day? Let's look at what they provide to society in terms of services/tax
Are they raising families? What are they providing to society there?
What life experience broadly speaking are they drawing on when they say this is nuts and not something that is ever going to work?
Police record - what's been the cost here from those people in terms of time, money, consumption of dealing with crimes committed, reported, outcomes etc. Are these people with that good old fashioned idea of people generally supporting safeguarding and law and order, with no record of harm to others?

Now can we do the same headcount on those advising on these policies?

Is there any difference I wonder?

Once again David Davies has the courage to point out reasonable concerns. Thank you to him. The other women are an utter disgrace. Trans women are trans women.

We've seen the full range of views from Labour leader and deputy leader candidates on whether men should be allowed into women's spaces so far.

There's been the 'too stupid to understand it' (Angela Rayner / Dawn Butler).

There's the 'understand it but happy to go against everything I stand for to get elected' (RLB / Jess Phillips).

And there's the 'don't care about women's rights and never will' (Keir Starmer'.

It's great to see how much they're learning from their 4th election defeat in a row.

Comments about electoral suicide - I think it's quite staggering that outside of Mumsnet when I talk about this, people have absolutely no idea how much of the electorate this issue influences in terms of voting.

Granted I am mid 20s, and would say the majority of my friends and peers are on the "woke" side. But they genuinely haven't even considered the proportion of female voters who either won't vote or will vote elsewhere because of this.

Love the categorisation @jadefinch! It was the look of panic in RLB's eyes as she said it - clearly knew it was drivel but will do anything for votes.

And yes @Lookingforpizza I know a fair few of the woke brigade of all ages, but they are a tiny minority (and already voted green or labour at the last election). You need to convince the voters who didn't vote labour, and they totally don't think self ID is a good idea when they become aware of it.

Electoral suicide, but who cares as purity is all that matters.