Lisa Nandy: Trans women are women

[jadefinch]

And when a Conservative MP says women's spaces such as prisons and refuges need to be protected from some men who say they are women, she replies 'not what he says'.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0008jqx?fbclid=IwAR2hx7vFoCI7arspHgCsmu7DdiF9qSDpTezzFSgbYKR8S-9zKejfbOYyJQQ

The question starts at 42 minutes and 48 seconds

@jadefinch what's Keir Starmer actually say on the matter? If he can spend 10 years defending Helen Steele and lots of time improving treatment of sexual assault victims as DPP I'm not quite sure how that could be a fair assessment of his true position?

No scrap that, you're right. I've just googled it and he did say something really stupid. Sod them all i've never voted Labour and it seems i never will.

I find this utterly baffling. That an adult woman, who presumably has used single sex spaces, and who has some idea of the extreme vulnerability of women in refuges, hospitals, prisons, and of girls on Girl Guide trips, in boarding school etc can deny that David Davies is talking sense, and insist that TWAW , I just can’t understand how that happens.
In what way are TWW ? In what way is the male person saying he is female, different from the male person not saying that ? In what way is person A not a threat to women and girls, while person B remains a risk ?

Keir Starmer: (paraphrasing) ‘mumble mumble, vulnerable group, mumble mumble extremely small extremely vulnerable group, mumble mumble, protect vulnerable people from being a political football, mumble’.

There was no applause from the audience for David Davis' views and I didn't like the people wanting to ban gender critical voices from the House of Commons.

Oh for goodness sake. I just joined the labour party so I could vote in these elections and hopefully be one of the many women who want to turn them around but they are really making it bloody difficult.

This was Nandy before the car crash that was Jo Swinson's election campaign. To be honest, even if she backtracked now, I would not be convinced that it's anything other than cynical attempt to get the older female vote. The contempt for older people who apparently don't get it is staggering. What are you going to do, Lisa, send us all off to a gulag for re-education?

Comments about electoral suicide - I think it's quite staggering that outside of Mumsnet when I talk about this, people have absolutely no idea how much of the electorate this issue influences in terms of voting.

Tbh its not so much about the trans thing but the 'woke at the expense of critical thinking' and lack of interest in problems which don't involve the 'right victim' in terms of identity politics.

Its all about the presentation of showing to the world how enlightened you are about oppression rather than getting off your arse to actually deal with real life inequality and injustice. Particularly the blindness to economic inequality and how that can be much more of a barrier than other identities. Eg a well educated middle class kid from an ethic background is being given special status in media circles such as the BBC over and above a white kid from a deprieved town who went to a crap school and didn't get such good grades and therefore their opportunities have been limited by this.

The trans issue is just one example where basis ideas have been turned into word salad and all sense of rational debate abandoned and with no idea of why safeguarding systems were set up and what purpose they served.

Im the same age as nandy, that's drivel.

And I'm so pro her otherwise!

Lazy ageism particularly annoying.

Ikr? At the moment thinking Keir Starmer as he's said the least stupid and objectionable things. But Christ that's a low bar.

As a lifelong Conservative voter, I should be celebrating the idiocy of the Labour leadership candidates and their sellout of the entire female electorate to please the tiny woke brigade, but I’m not.
Any democracy needs a strong healthy opposition, otherwise it becomes a dangerously totalitarian one party state. Labour making themselves unelectable for the foreseeable future is a risk to all of us. And I grieve at their stupidity.

No one will make labour leader if they don’t say TW=W so it’s all a bit self selective really

Exactly what @RedToothBrush said! Middle class straight white men are not the most oppressed class on the planet but somehow here we are

Oh FFS. If she doesn't understand why women both deserve and NEED a word that means women, she needs more education herself.

The trans issue is just one example where basis ideas have been turned into word salad and all sense of rational debate abandoned and with no idea of why safeguarding systems were set up and what purpose they served.

Safeguarding framework failures are being reported in so many places where children & vulnerable adults should & could be protected.

What is happening are some of the consequences of these Safeguarding failures, there will be many more.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3301266-Safeguarding-girls-and-protecting-women-post-Jimmy-Saville-metoo

In October 2018 Stephen Whittle told women on a Mumsnet thread that he knew trans rights' activists had the full support of Labour.

"In the end we will pull ourselves together and continue the campaigning – as we have always done. We know we have Labour behind this one, so will simply do our best to get them elected. As I tell the community “we have always lost more battles than we have won, but we only ever need to win the big one”.

I hope that clarifies matters."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3397010-Guardian-article-on-MPs-concern-with-GRA?msgid=81891984#81891984

This assertion was apparently confirmed publically shortly afterwards by Jeremy Corbyn at a Pink News event.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3398127-Stephen-Whittle-influential-TRA-asserts-We-know-we-have-Labour-behind-this-one-so-will-simply-do-our-best-to-get-them-elected-Corbyn-seems-to-confirm-this-at-Pink-News

Stephen Whittle & Benjamin Cohen are very effective & influential lobbyists.

Exactly what Babdoc said. They are all too frightened of the Momentum/woke brigade & are trying to appeal to them at this stage rather than the electorate.

I heard this clip recently. It disappointed me so much.

@DuLANGMondeFOREVER

Thanks

@Gingerkittykat

Agreed -response of the audience was rather telling.

Loud cheers for the TWAW/ TMAM stance and silence when it comes to protecting single sex spaces and why this is important.

Yep - Questioner thanks ‘most of the panel’ - not the one that thinks privacy of women and girls is important.

Questioner thinks opposing views - concerns for the impact on women and girls - should not be allowed a platform in the House of Commons in our democratic society.

A perfect example of the problems with identity politics.

Four women (including questioner) pro TWAW and only the man wanting to protect female spaces.

These women don’t represent me or give a fuck of my DD’s legally ensured rights to safety, dignity and privacy.

Interesting that the presenter introduced the question by referring to Sam Smith. He states Sam’s preferred pronouns of them/they but then refers to Sam as ‘his’ and ‘he.’

No one seemed to notice??!! No one shouted abuse. on Twitter - would he be barred?

Isn’t this what Maya did - gendered someone who identifies as non-binary - who has a beard - which only men can have - so pretty much everyone else would do the same?

There to catch you out!

Well colour me shocked!! None of them truly believe a man can be a woman - they just know they have to say it. It’s laughable and frightening at the same time

If they can be do spineless and clueless with a lack of critical thinking then I can’t trust that they don’t operate like this on every issue

Good point ThinEndoftheWedge

Nandy says non-binary is valid and calls for more education to counter transphobia, but didn't even notice the appalling act of violence - the misgendering of Sam Smith - that had just taken place

ThinEndoftheWedge perhaps the way to hammer home the point of this absurdity, is to complain via the BBC complaints procedure that this dreadful act of violence happened, and that these MPs just sat there and let it happen. And that the presenter needs to be publicly chastised in the way that Jenni Murray was.

I'm not sure that Starmer said what Ponk News likes to think he said.

Oh well, as a lifelong Labour voter who voted Tory this time, I was quite relieved to hear David Davies' views.