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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Lang Cleg 2

999 replies

TiredofthisBSbutIstandwithLang · 22/01/2020 12:17

New thread as we got to 1000.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Faceicle · 22/01/2020 16:12

There's a theory that a government minister HAS to resign if the controversial issue is headline news for five days.

I'm willing to pitch up here complaining about Lang's ousting for far longer than that. Because this is obscene. For parents you say? She is one of our best advocates.

Skolkolet · 22/01/2020 16:13

This is a genuinely idiotic banning. And I don't believe for one minute that Lang suddenly changed character completely and was privately abusing MNHQ!

LangClegSupportersClub · 22/01/2020 16:15

I find the rules difficult to understand, especially the posts that get deleted as 'not in the spirit' Hmm

I'm here on mumsnet for FWR, I came here for this board and stayed because of posters like LangCleg I browse around other boards now but only because I've come here.

I'm glad Justine hasn't closed this board as I've learnt so much but I'm wondering at what point do we say the rules are like walking on eggshells sufficiently unreasonable that this amounts to an abusive relationship and LTB ?

DingaLangLangCleg · 22/01/2020 16:15

@JustineMumsnet - please reinstat2 LangCleg

Skolkolet · 22/01/2020 16:17

The problem with LTB is the lack of a good alternative to the Mumsnet forums. I haven't found one.

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 22/01/2020 16:18

I'm wondering at what point do we say the rules are sufficiently unreasonable that this amounts to an abusive relationship and LTB ?

If this was the relationship board, they’d probably say about 2 years ago.

The relationships board is the most Feminist (ie No Nonsense Nana) part of the entire site!

Imstinkyeddie · 22/01/2020 16:19

TRA openly boasting on twitter that they got lang banned.

Gloating, even.

How does that sit with you justinemumsnet?

Imstinkyeddie · 22/01/2020 16:20

Perhaps us small brained women can see these offending messages?

It some of us have already done so?

popehilarious · 22/01/2020 16:20

So let me get this straight. There are examples of rudeness in personal messages to mods, and rudeness and/or aggression in posts that still stand.

I can't say this about many posters but I've probably read most of Lang's posts over the last couple of years and would struggle to see any outright aggression in any of them. She was keen on the idea that mods understood the Freedom Programme, right? But I've only seen her suggest that genuinely.
I'm baffled tbh.

ThePankhurstConnection · 22/01/2020 16:22

Sorry for the test, haven't been able to post. I'm sorry we have lost Lang Cleg and her knowledge of safeguarding which was excellent and helpful. Hopefully by following her elsewhere I will still get the benefit.

I don't post here much anymore because the guidelines seem vague and capricious in that they seem to be open to some very WIDE interpretation by moderators. I have been around the FWR board for years under various names. I always loved the women here but it has become too much of a chore to constantly tiptoe in this section of the forum when I know fine well other areas of the site are far more vicious and far less heavily moderated. Lang was pretty good at staying polite and within guidelines but that wasn't enough. I'll miss her on here but like I say the shine wore off this place when women's language started to be so heavily policed by people who aren't even members of the site.

It is as well to remember for those busy reporting and anyone else that you can keep doing this but it isn't changing anyone's mind (well it may be cementing a few issues) and it won't stop how people think or the fact that many people oppose self ID for numerous rational reasons and trying to quiet those voices isn't going to work when this is legislation which affects us all.

Anyway Lang, I hope you are ok. I'm sure this is overwhelming, but I hope to 'see' you elsewhere. Your posts will be sorely missed (but not your weetabix).

TheRattleCleg · 22/01/2020 16:26

I made the mistake of looking at the gloaty posts on Twitter.

My blood pressure will never be the same again.

Utterly vile behaviour.

Please bring back LangCleg!

DingaLangLangCleg · 22/01/2020 16:26

This on Twitter today.

Lang Cleg 2
Floisme · 22/01/2020 16:27

I would like to ask how many reports MNHQ have received about Lang. Because if she has had over 60 posts deleted then I can only conclude that she has been targeted for mass reporting.
I very much doubt whether any of us would survive under that level of surveillance.
It's pretty obvious why she has been targeted in this way. Do you really want to be remembered as a parenting website that silenced a safeguarding expert?

Blistory · 22/01/2020 16:27

Is it possible to change the moderation in FWR again ? Much as it pains me to say it, nuance appears to have been lost across many of the boards over the last few years. There seems to be a lack of critical thinking which leads to reporting and deletions. This applies even more so to issues of women’s rights. Having a post misunderstood or lazily interpreted is frustrating, particularly when it leads to a deletion. I’ve been on the receiving end of that from other posters which was compounded by the moderator appearing to be influenced by how the post was reported instead of what my post said. That frustration may then spill over into off board messaging with moderators. Is that taken into account sufficiently given that there isn’t the same knowledge/awareness/relationship between moderators and posters that existed before ? Should there be dedicated moderators ?

Is there any way that a poster who is deleted/suspended/banned has an automatic right to appeal that deletion/suspension/ban to a different moderator to ensure that there is fairness and not just a quick reaction to numerous reports ? These aren’t schoolchildren receiving a detention and shouting about it being unfair, these are largely sensible, measured women who are frustrated and confused by inconsistency.

I agree that it should be okay to have a robust discussion with moderators but I also get that when that same discussion is had over and over again, it breaks down the relationship. I also understand that what we see online isn’t necessarily the same as what goes on offline but surely MNHQ can see that posters don’t have the information to see if MNHQ are being fair and consistent. We don’t know what the average deletion rate is for posters or across the boards or what number of posters are banned every week. Without context, it’s easy to feel that FWR is being targeted and that ‘known’ posters are being singled out.

That said, if moderators are being accused unfairly or feel that they are , maybe that should be brought to light and not in the general way that’s been done in the past but by highlighting specific instances as and when they’re happening.

There has to be a workable solution to this. You need FWR as much as it needs MN, not just for traffic but for to uphold the very ethos of support and advice. When those women aren’t there fighting anymore, we all lose. When those women are so disheartened that they turn on MN, we all lose When MN sends those women away, we all lose. Please fix this.

DingaLangLangCleg · 22/01/2020 16:27

Can anyone see the screenshot in the post above? ^

Mner2000 · 22/01/2020 16:29

Yes

Oncewasblueandyellowtwo · 22/01/2020 16:34

DingaLangLangCleg
Yes I can see it.

TiredofthisBSbutIstandwithLang · 22/01/2020 16:35

It sits uneasily @justinemumsnet that TRA's are openly boasting on Twitter about Lang Cleg ban. To be honest I have to question your judgement on this matter as nothing I have seen from Lang Cleg indicates aggression or rudeness. Slowly but surely woman are being silenced and by removing Lang you are complicit in that fact.

OP posts:
MichaelMumsnet · 22/01/2020 16:35

Just to be clear about the rudeness in question - it came down to repeated accusations that we're coercively controlling. It's a nasty accusation that has an impact on staff wellbeing and it's one of the places where we draw the line.

We don't think our moderators should have to be 'robust' in the face of rudeness. It makes for an unpleasant and demotivating work environment, and we don't think it's too much to ask that users avoid being rude to moderators in the first place.

Skolkolet · 22/01/2020 16:37

"Nasty"

LoveCompost · 22/01/2020 16:38

Mumsnet - when the s**t hits the fan , and it will , and the country sees this as the biggest child abuse scandal EVER , it won’t look good that you ban women who are the Cassandras . Please remember it was concerned, brave, feminists who brought down PIE . Thank you .

popehilarious · 22/01/2020 16:39

I thought Lang took steps to make clear each time it's the monitors who are being the coercive controllers.
Did you think "monitors" referred to moderators, @JustineMumsnet ? It's been repeated so often in so many posts even I, who don't really know anything about coercive control, could repeat that bit back to you.

Binterested · 22/01/2020 16:40

Justine is stuck now. She tells us JP is lying and risks JP showing receipts (or JP doubling down on abuse). Or she admits they have been in discussion with TRAs and other vexatious litigants and MN reveals itself as hostile to its core users.

Or say nothing and leave us guessing as to which one of these unappealing options is true. There isn’t another option.

MingeofDeath · 22/01/2020 16:41

Delurked for this. Terrible, terrible decision MumsnetHQ. Why are you caving in to JP?

MrsSnippyPants · 22/01/2020 16:42

As far as I could see @MichaelMumsnet, Lang was pointing out that the moderators were being subject to coercive control by TRAs!