The Composition and Demographics of the Growing Trans Population

[Justhadathought]

It seems that every week ( even as reported in just my local tabloid newspaper) the 'transitioning' population increases, and the Transgender Umbrella ( as determined by Stonewall) provides shelter for a very wide range of demographic of people.

Yet it seems to me ( would be interesting to see statistics) that apart from young women ( mainly lesbians) transitioning to male...the largest and most rapidly accelerating group is that of older 'cross dressing' males. Most often heterosexual or married, and quite often having been in, or performed, an archetypal macho or traditionally masculine role or occupation ( been in the military etc).

This is not only as evidenced by the growing number of reports in my local newspaper, but from my own observations on the street and around town: www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/transgender-woman-agreed-cannabis-plot-17604909

Tubby two

. I'm not sure I'm for turning but, I read with interest at times.

“statsgeek”, so you don’t think that any mental health issue should or even can be treated since you say the brain is ‘the superior organ’ and ask why should it be changed in any way due, presumably, to its ‘superiority’? Don’t you think that flies in the face of those pesky things called ‘stats’ that you so obviously admire?

It would be helpful (a magic cure) but for now after a number of different methods, it appears changing the body to match the brain is where we are at.

But is anyone really investigating this?

When 'sex change surgery' first started, psychological treatments were much more primitive than they are now, and these should be the first line of treatment for all patients who present with gender dysphoria. This is not what is happening.

Children are currently being encouraged to believe they have a 'gender identity' which might mean they are in the wrong body. For example, BBC still have this nonsense up on their website. I made two complaints about it, they made some minor changes, but the nonsense is still there, encouraging children to think they "might be transgender".

www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zt3ck7h/revision/7

Our sex, which is physical – male or female – is distinct from our gender, which is psychological and social.

What this means is that some of us have a gender which is different from our sex.

We may be male physically, but identify or feel more comfortable thinking of ourselves as a female.

We may be female physically, but identify or feel more comfortable thinking of ourselves as a male.

We may identify as being male and female or neither.

When we feel this way, we may be transgender or gender non binary.

This could be a confusing feeling to have, especially when society expects us to act a certain way based on our sex.

Being transgender or gender non binary, however, is natural. Just like your sexuality, it is deeply personal. You should take time to work through your feelings and find what is right for you.

The story is there but, it certainly hasn't really taken off even with the Times making great efforts to paint bad trans people like Karen White as somehow representative of the population in general.

I think that is your interpretation. I checked some of the news reports and think you might be biased;

''Rapist, Karen White, in women’s jail ‘was trans faker’''
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rapist-karen-white-in-women-s-jail-was-trans-faker-lbcwjp8jc

Even in cases of dysphoria in adults, the results, medically and psychologically speaking, from surgery/hormones/living as the other sex aren't all that great. The numbers don't suggest that it's any kind of satisfying treatment. We should be trying to do better.

The numbers suggest it is a reasonable treatment for dysphoria for many, but that further support (post op) is sometimes required.

There is no magic cure. Transition isn’t perfect. Talking therapy isn’t either. It’s a life long struggle for some. It’s a case of deciding what produces the best outcomes for each individual.

If women can't consent to be sterilised on the NHS in their 20s because they don't want children, how can teens consent to puberty blockers and hormones? The consequences are unknown, under-researched and the teens themselves can't possibly give informed consent on issues like sexual impairment, sterility etc.

Old crone

I don't know if anybody is looking into it but they have tried many 'cures' down the years but, up until now none appear to work as well as the current pathway.

Thelnebriati

You're right I'm biased, it's not overly pleasant being generalized by the commonality of a medical condition with a sex offender. It's also a bit tiring at times waiting for Gilligans Sunday special. I was quietly pleased that the lottery funding thing back fired on them though. You could see that coming a mile off.

Goosefoot

What numbers would those be that suggest it isn't a satisfying treatment. I thing even some of the prominent GC trans folk have reported that surgery and medical assistance has helped them. I'm personally satisfied, it could of course be better but to say I'm not satisfied would be a disservice to the NHS that helped me. I don't think I'm unusual in that respect.

Alleywhat

I'll have to keep it. If I can't have a little laugh at my own expense its all been for nothing.

I did note from the study that the extrapolation has been used on the just short of 6000 replies they received. Some of the other figures in that report are eye watering, particularly with regards to mental health. I can see why the trans prisoner issue wasnt on top of the prison services to do list. For what it's worth I don't believe that sex offenders should be housed with the demographic that they targeted.

I think one of the biggest problems is that there are lengthy waiting lists to be seen by GIDS (I’ve heard it’s around 2 years for Sandyford in Glasgow now, not sure about the Tavi but I’d guess similar) and in the meantime, there is no support for these children.

CAHMS tend to want them off their books as soon as they hear GI issues. I know of the odd parent who has been able to keep their child under CAHMS, but many are shifted directly to the GIDS waiting list which is extremely worrying as most of these children have comorbidities which should be addressed and if they are, there may be a positive impact on the GI issues. We tried to have our daughter referred for an autism diagnosis (on the back of many many sessions with a child psychologist who felt quite strongly that DD is autistic), but the GP wouldn’t address that- would only refer to the GIDS clinic.

So you have all these children who are not getting any sort of holistic treatment or advice bar what organisations like Mermaids give- I.e. positive affirmation route- while they sit on lengthy waiting lists, and then once seen, by GIDS, within 3-6 sessions they can be diagnosed with GD and sent down a medical path.

Big long wait and then questionably rushed down a path, frequently where they have already socially transitioned and so are deeply imbedded in a mindset which possibly could have been avoided by extensive holistic counselling way at the beginning.

It’s a dreadful process.

You're right I'm biased, it's not overly pleasant being generalized by the commonality of a medical condition with a sex offender.

Why take it personally though? Transwomen can be sex offenders, it's a fact. What was wrong with the reporting about the Karen White case specifically? Would it have been better to simply refer to KW as 'woman'?

So you have all these children who are not getting any sort of holistic treatment or advice bar what organisations like Mermaids give

And anecdotally (therapist in the family) therapists that would explore background issues (ie do proper therapy) are starting to get nervous around taking on young trans clients. They don't want to be struck off now for not affirming or sued in 10 years for the opposite.

Yes, still it can be very difficult to find a therapist, plus the cost of private therapy is not within the means of many families.

I don't know if anybody is looking into it but they have tried many 'cures' down the years but, up until now none appear to work as well as the current pathway.

This method of treating children who are unhappy about their sex is very new. I think it is too early to say that it works well.

If anyone is interested in research in this area, the absolute best person you can follow on Twitter is Hasci Horvath (@givethemseeds). He’s just left (I believe, or is going to soon) his position as adjunct lecturer in the department of Epidmology and Biostatistics at the University of California. He was a TW for 13 years before detransitioning and he has an absolute wealth of information on the topic. He also disseminates research papers and is pretty much a walking library on the subject.

*Epidemiology (because I can’t spell)

Old crone

I don't think something being new is reason to dismiss it. If we had to wait for years worth of outcome statistics for new treatments before going ahead with it we would be stuck in a vicious circle of nothing progressing and we'd all still be being dragged off to the local asylum for some electric shock treatments or worse. Personally, I believe they are doing the right thing by a proportionately very small number of children who would otherwise suffer needlessly. Others are of a different opinion, that's fine. That doesn't mean that I don't support robust investigation but I can see no reason as to why GD should be at the back of the queue and a diagnosis of last resort if it is clear to those involved with the child that this is a problem.

Thepurported

You're right, I shouldn't take it personally, it would be ridiculous to think that KW was in anyway representative of trans people in general with regards to criminality.

Personally, I would have reported her as a trans woman which is what she seemed to be. I don't subscribe the TWAW position personally but I'm far from GC.

Personally, I believe they are doing the right thing by a proportionately very small number of children who would otherwise suffer needlessly.

So you're perfectly happy with children diagnosed with gender dysphoria being given treatment when 4 out of 5 would outgrow it after puberty? And it's worth making those 4 medical patients for life for the sake of the one out of the 5 who doesn't outgrow it? With all the impacts on their sexual function and reproductive capability as adults? When it isn't even clear whether the early treatment is the best solution even for the one out of 5 who persists after puberty?

I can see no reason as to why GD should be at the back of the queue and a diagnosis of last resort if it is clear to those involved with the child that this is a problem.

You have admitted yourself that we can't know which children will persist and which will desist until after they have gone through puberty. Until that time, the only treatments should be mental health support to help to ease their distress with their bodies.

However, for a cohort of people that despite recent increases in number is still proportionally very small, medical transition will be the only viable way to make life more bareable.

This seems clearly to be true. But advocating for it to happen in childhood or adolescence rather than adulthood clearly risks sweeping into the net large number of equally gender dysphoric people who would ultimately have been better without surgery. And that seems more of a risk than ever right now because of some of the social contagion that is going on (even if it didn't for you) and because of the affirmation-only 'anything else is conversion therapy' approach that has spread to many adults who encounter gender dysphoric young people. Both of those things are new things that are changing the current landscape.

I can understand from your perspective that you are very focused on the smaller subset who will always ultimately be better transitioning. But what happens to the rest of the unhappy gender dysphoric young people matters too, and if intensive psychological help that looks at everything in their life and not just the GD can heal their distress, don't they have the right to have that?

Exploring co-morbidities doesn't mean ignoring the GD and hoping it goes away. Sometimes exploring the co-morbidities will be how you discover the cause of the GD, and thus enable it to go away. Which is not conversion therapy or hating on trans people - it's making life better for the person suffering from the dysphoria. Surely that's the ultimate aim?

I wouldn't describe my feelings as being happy however, I am content that the NHS is currently helping a very small minority of children to feel more comfortable in themselves. I can't believe that the NHS would knowingly treat a cohort of people, especially children in the knowledge that 80 percent of them will grow out of it anymore than I believe they would give a clot busting drug to everyone presenting with a headache.

It's all good and well sitting here talking about it but you need to be showing those Dr's and psychiatrists that they have got it all wrong. They'll ask for the evidence I suppose and as far as I am aware de transitioners are your best hope and they appear to be a tiny cohort of an already very small population group.

Dockie

I agree with much of what you say and absolutely support robust investigation of the issues. I spent a good proportion of my time on the 'couch' so to speak.

The ultimate aim should always be to make thier lives better. Personally I believe those involved in the treatment of GD be it in a MH capacity, a medical capacity or a surgical capacity really do believe that they are doing the right thing. I tend to agree with them.

I can't believe that the NHS would knowingly treat a cohort of people, especially children in the knowledge that 80 percent of them will grow out of it

It does seem unbelievable, doesn't it? But that's what happens when in-depth analysis of a young person's distress is seen as 'conversion therapy' and the only therapy given has to affirm the child's transgender identity.

We should all be outraged by what is being done to children.

It's all good and well sitting here talking about it but you need to be showing those Dr's and psychiatrists that they have got it all wrong. They'll ask for the evidence I suppose and as far as I am aware de transitioners are your best hope and they appear to be a tiny cohort of an already very small population group.

That's what's happening now. Were you unaware?

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jan/05/high-court-to-decide-if-children-can-consent-to-gender-reassignment

There's a link to more information about the legal case to protect children from experimental medical treatment on this page:
www.transgendertrend.com/