The Composition and Demographics of the Growing Trans Population

[Justhadathought]

It seems that every week ( even as reported in just my local tabloid newspaper) the 'transitioning' population increases, and the Transgender Umbrella ( as determined by Stonewall) provides shelter for a very wide range of demographic of people.

Yet it seems to me ( would be interesting to see statistics) that apart from young women ( mainly lesbians) transitioning to male...the largest and most rapidly accelerating group is that of older 'cross dressing' males. Most often heterosexual or married, and quite often having been in, or performed, an archetypal macho or traditionally masculine role or occupation ( been in the military etc).

This is not only as evidenced by the growing number of reports in my local newspaper, but from my own observations on the street and around town: www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/transgender-woman-agreed-cannabis-plot-17604909

Some people see caution about medicalisation of gender dysphoria as leading to extreme outcomes. However, this claim has been widely debunked and there is no proven link between a cautionary approach and increase in suicidal thoughts and behaviours. More often than not there is co-morbidity with other mental illness and this must be fully explored and treated as with any other patient.

With reference to the report they say their survey revealed that 2% of male prisoners identified as trans and then went on to say that 2 prisoners in their survey identified as trans but weren't openly out about it(understandably so I suppose given the location). Did the survey only interview 100 prisoners and then extrapolate or am I missing the bit where 1500 prisoners said they were trans?

statsgeek1 I am the mother of a 14 year old girl who currently identifies as a boy. I don’t think you understand what watchful waiting is and I would point out that the Tavistock Clinic does NOT recommend social transition before a child or adolescent is seen by them.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-49020371

I’ll be back later to bore everyone yet again to tears about watchful waiting vs positive affirmation, but here’s what I posted on another thread:

I’m the mother of a 14 year old girl who currently identifies as a boy. My opinion is that there are a multitude of reasons why there has been an explosion in the numbers- no one really knows why. What we do know is that historically, most children referred to the Tavistock clinic were boys, but now most are girls- total numbers from around 100 a decade ago to 2500 last year. We also know that historically, using the watchful waiting approach (ie no social transitioning or affirming the child as the opposite sex), the vast majority of these children would desist by or during puberty.

We now have a new cohort of adolescent girls (in the main) identifying as boys and many don’t share the same presentation as previously- many did not show signs of GD as children, a significant % are autistic, most present with other comorbidities, many have been influenced by social media (social contagion). Many struggle with social issues and feel they feel they better fit in if they are seen as a boy. Because of this, we don’t know which adolescents will naturally desist under watchful waiting and which will persist.

The new automatic positive affirmation and social transition approach which is pushed onto schools and parents by lobby groups is untested and experimental. There is no long term research showing that this is a better approach than watchful waiting, and it is not recommended by the Tavistock. Many highly experienced professionals warn against it as there are risks involved in affirming children as the opposite sex- a powerful psychological impact when the trusted adults around a child/adolescent validate their belief.

Social transition/positive affirmation is effectively a gateway to medical transition which begins with puberty blockers (upcoming court case against their use) and then almost always then leads to cross sex hormones.

I know there are parents who support the social transition of their child and I would not presume to assume that it is wrong for their child, but generally speaking, I think social transition comes with many unacceptable risks.

Did the survey only interview 100 prisoners and then extrapolate or am I missing the bit where 1500 prisoners said they were trans?

I'll happily explain it to you! But only if you change your username to statsignoramus.

statsgeek1 I am the mother of a 14 year old girl who currently identifies as a boy. I don’t think you understand what watchful waiting is and I would point out that the Tavistock Clinic does NOT recommend social transition before a child or adolescent is seen by them

The Tavistock may well not recommend that, but in practice is it not the case that many young people turn up at GIDS already having socially transitioned? And that schools are now 'transitioning' children, often against the wishes or knowledge of the parents?

I used to be a teacher, but even 10 years ago' being trans' was just not a thing in schools......So my experience with this issue and how it is currently dealt with in schools is not up to date.

Rodgmum

I understand exactly what watchful waiting is. I've experienced it, it did not help and for me it didn't change a thing other than led to a spiral of mess why I tried my best to make it go away. Your child is your business I'm sure you will do what you think is right. Hopefully it will be because it isn't pleasant when it's not.

Good luck to you both it can be very distressing to all involved.

allmywhat

Go for it, I'm all ears or should that be eyes? I promise to make a commitment about my user name.

There is a huge problem with this concept of "trans kids" as if that is a state of being and you just have to suss out which kids are "really" trans. The reality is that what you have is that some kids who are suffering from a sense of alienation from their bodies, and the ideal situation is that should be healed. When that doesn't happen, it's very much a matter of making do with a less favourable outcome, and we should hope that we are able to reduce the instances where that happens.

Telling kids that they may be part of a group of people who are made to endlessless suffer that discomfort and distress isn't going to help that situation.

I agree with you there, Goosefoot.

Yes, just that is exactly what happened to us. In fact our 17 year old son was told his sister was now a boy at school but we weren't told.

That's awful.

Goosefoot

I would still to this day take a magic cure and not to have had to felt the way I did. The less people that feel the distress the better in my opinion.

However, for a cohort of people that despite recent increases in number is still proportionally very small, medical transition will be the only viable way to make life more bareable.

I'd love to know why but I'm resigned to it being unlikely in the 50 or so years I'm likely to have left that I'll find out.

There is a huge problem with this concept of "trans kids" as if that is a state of being and you just have to suss out which kids are "really" trans.

Yes, the kids who are 'really' trans are the ones who, once they are adults, and have had extensive counselling in order to try to reconcile them with the body they have, as a last resort undergo extensive physical treatment to make their body resemble that of the opposite sex.

Someone who is 'really' trans is someone who is distressed by their sexed body. No child who is sexually immature can really be trans.

I would still to this day take a magic cure and not to have had to felt the way I did. The less people that feel the distress the better in my opinion.

It's a shame no one is looking for that cure that would make people accept their own body and biological sex, isn't it?

ok! you can check page 116 of the report for the raw numbers including how many prisoners they surveyed. Ctrl -F is useful in large PDFs.

The quote that confused you came from one prison which had two trans prisoners. Multiple prisons were surveyed.

For a stats geek you don't seem to be that fussed about finding the stats.

Thank you for that I am easily confused.

It's a shame no one is looking for that cure that would make people accept their own body and biological sex, isn't it?

Instead of that, the psychological trauma which causes this distress in many cases is not even being investigated.

This testimony from a detransitioned man is worth watching.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000dl50

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3793180-Story-of-Richard-Hoskins-detrasitioner-in-Mail-on-Sunday

Statsgeek? I think that’s a bit of wishful thinking 😂 It’s great to aim high but you are so lacking in any understanding of stats that I actually feel sorry for the discrepancy between that and your self belief. There are some extremely intelligent women on this thread. Sadly, you’re not one of them. Stick around and keep reading though and a little bit of their wisdom might eventually sink in.

It would be helpful (a magic cure) but for now after a number of different methods, it appears changing the body to match the brain is where we are at. I suppose the brain is the superior organ, why should it be the one to change. After all it's capable of maintaining homeostasis so to tell the it that it's wrong was never going to go smoothly.

It would be preferable, surely? Acceptance. Rather than dealing with all the societal transphobia transactivists point to.

Also there are cures for a lot of medical conditions. They're not "magic" are they?

I'm inclined to let you off the hook with the username change - at least, don't call yourself ignoramus, if I'd thought you'd accept the offer I wouldn't have stipulated that.

But maybe something other than statsgeek would be more appropriate and realistic.

so to tell the it that it's wrong was never going to go smoothly.

Yet people with mental health conditions often take drugs to manage their conditions (with varying degrees of success).