The Composition and Demographics of the Growing Trans Population

[Justhadathought]

It seems that every week ( even as reported in just my local tabloid newspaper) the 'transitioning' population increases, and the Transgender Umbrella ( as determined by Stonewall) provides shelter for a very wide range of demographic of people.

Yet it seems to me ( would be interesting to see statistics) that apart from young women ( mainly lesbians) transitioning to male...the largest and most rapidly accelerating group is that of older 'cross dressing' males. Most often heterosexual or married, and quite often having been in, or performed, an archetypal macho or traditionally masculine role or occupation ( been in the military etc).

This is not only as evidenced by the growing number of reports in my local newspaper, but from my own observations on the street and around town: www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/transgender-woman-agreed-cannabis-plot-17604909

either

I haven't made any claims about who is or is not likely to persist into adulthood. I do know though that forcing a child away from treatment can lead to all sorts of negative consequences. A travesty if it persists into adulthood when invasive surgical interventions become a necessity. Clearly our opinions differ but, if we can articulate them openly then that can only be good.

I'm definitely allowed to say transsexual. They would almost certainly struggle to describe me as transphobic in the cold light of day.

I think most journalists won't touch it with a barge pole because it just isn't on the radar of most people
What evidence do you have for that belief? It is contradicted by what we hear from journalists and people who try to contact them
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/01/was-this-journalist-sacked-for-saying-sex-is-binary/

You also ignore the violent attacks women face when we meet to talk about our existing legal rights. They put people off meeting or talking; as they are designed to.

what relevance does the photo have to the incidence of trans people using the TFL network?

The relevance is to your incomplete perception of the situation statsgeek1. One which you seem content to maintain.

Like CharlieParley says, your arguments seem to be based on the prevalence of transsexuals and their treatment 10+ years ago. The landscape is now radically different. Your observation about not seeing trans people on public transport shows you are not seeing things as they actually are now.

As for it being "rude and disrespectful to post" the photo, it's a photo of a person who has sought a high public profile as a politician and been very upfront about being trans.

That said, the GC position has a mouthpiece. They have several holding prominence in most of the national press and are regularly given a free run

That is certainly not my perception or experience. Quite the contrary. It takes a brave publication or journalist to ask the questions. And not one politician is prepared to speak out ( well, maybe a handful...).It is great that there is some critical & questioning coverage, though,.......But without the campaigning, and forums such as this, that would not have happened.

As far as I am aware the only violent attack that was confirmed was the lady assaulted at speakers corner. The assailant was convicted and rightly punished, they did wrong, I understand that.

I understand that there are protests at the meetings but, there is a right to peaceful protest in the UK. Personally, I wouldn't have the time or inclination to stand in the cold but, If anyone else has been assaulted I suggest it is reported to the police who will look for evidence in support of the allegation.

As for evidence for my belief I watch the news and read papers. The story is there but, it certainly hasn't really taken off even with the Times making great efforts to paint bad trans people like Karen White as somehow representative of the population in general. Those journalists who are anti trans/ gender critical do need to up their game.

forcing a child away from treatment

Children are vulnerable -and the shape of their experience is dictated by the adults around them. A child cannot be " forced away from treatment". Treatments in themselves are adult inventions and inter-ventions.

Read a really interesting book a while back: Crazy Like Us; the globalisation of the American Psyche - which looks at the way that American narratives around suffering and emotional distress have been exported around the world - into places which had never before encountered such 'ailments'. Accompanied, of course, by a pharmaceutical and medical complex with ready made solutions and interventions - and an army of appropriately trained counsellors and advisors to boot.

I'm definitely allowed to say transsexual. They would almost certainly struggle to describe me as transphobic in the cold light of day

Of course you are...it might not go down so well with stonewall, though.
Miranda Yardley, a trans woman, was recently taken to court; accused of transphobia.

I understand that there are protests at the meetings but, there is a right to peaceful protest in the UK. Personally, I wouldn't have the time or inclination to stand in the cold but, If anyone else has been assaulted I suggest it is reported to the police who will look for evidence in support of the allegation

The baying mob that gathered in Brighton, as one example, was not a peaceful one....spitting, screaming, banging and kicking windows repeatedly...and the police did nothing.

I do know though that forcing a child away from treatment can lead to all sorts of negative consequences. A travesty if it persists into adulthood when invasive surgical interventions become a necessity.

Can you explain what you mean here? What invasive surgical interventions are you talking about? GRS appears to have a worse outcome in those who have had their puberty blocked as children.

And when you say 'forcing a child away from treatment' you really mean 'preventing children from starting on a medical pathway whose consequences they don't have the capacity to understand'.

Perhaps I'm not overly sensitive to the presence of trans people amongst my daily chores and travels. Perhaps that I see the visibility as positive rather than a negative outcome clouds my judgement.

I'm very knowledgeable about the current treatment pathway both medical and surgical and do know that the NHS is certainly not rushing anyone through. But, I guess experience is no substitute for anecdote in an age when a misrepresentation is twice around the world before reality has peered out from under the duvet.

I don't think Miranda Yardley would like me very much if I'm honest but seeing as she is highly unlikely to darken my door I won't worry too much about her. As for the baying mob in Brighton I thought the police actions were consistent with one of the attendees being a bit more of a problem. I guess perception driven by confirmation bias is always going to prevent the two of us reachin agreement on that particular point. Stranger things have happened though.

The Times making great efforts to paint bad trans people like Karen White as somehow representative of the population in general

The Times has used examples where they show that there are serious issues with Self Id, not to make out that all trans people are violent, criminal or sex offenders. Even though, it turns out, quite a number are.

This is a women's ( & children's) rights issue -which is why women are so exercised by it.....Women have the right to their own spaces, services and sports for the purpose and reason dignity, privacy, but also safety. If the TRA movement was not pushing so forcefully and disrespectfully to access these spaces there would be no issue. People can present as they please, and everyone should have civil rights, naturally.

Also, the issue of so called 'trans children' is a huge one.........and of great concern

Exactly @stillathing

Old crone,

I am referring to the need of the older transitioner to go through operations like FFS etc... to help them blend in more successfully.

When I say denying a child treatment I think of a child being denied help and then going into a downward spiral in an effort to make it all go away due to unsupportive parents. That the same child went through transition as an adult meant all that horrible stuff just needn't have happened at all. I'd like to think that could be avoided if it all possible.

I understand that there are protests at the meetings but, there is a right to peaceful protest in the UK.

Do you think this is acceptable?

Rosa Freedman: Professor's door 'covered in urine' after gender law debate

Wasn't Prof Freedmans door found not to be the result of trans activists? I think she said as much herself although she wasn't quite as loud with that bit of the story.

Perhaps that I see the visibility as positive rather than a negative outcome clouds my judgement

Visibility is just visibility. It only becomes positive or negative, surely, if you have a vested interest. For a transsexual visibility might well be positive - because it reduces stigma; and for people who are not trans it might just appear as a visual oddity that is on the increase...but when combined with forceful incursions into intimate female spaces, services and sports....it may also be viewed with additional concerns.

Certainly when I see the increasing visibility of middle aged cross dressers - I feel uncomfortable at the idea that they would seek to use women only facilities - given what I know about the highly sexualised nature of cross dressing for most of its practitioners.

Yes justathought it's nearly always bad news when trans people are in the media if they're male. There is one prominent transwoman who seems to be doing very well in their scientific career who seems a nice enough human being, and who i'd like to praise here, but i suspect i'm not allowed to say who that is as it's 'outing'.

I'm very knowledgeable about the current treatment pathway both medical and surgical and do know that the NHS is certainly not rushing anyone through.

I have no doubt that like me you know a lot about the current pathway. I do wonder however, if this is a) up to date and b) based on policy knowledge and/or practice?

I ask this because too many parents and detransitioners are reporting that they are being rushed through to medical transition to dismiss their experiences as mere anecdote. At which point would you consider that policies may not be followed? Or that new policies have been put in place? Or even that your definition of rushing through or what constitutes treatment in this context may not be the same?

I ask this out of genuine interest to find out what informs your thinking on this and how you came to your conclusion.

That the same child went through transition as an adult meant all that horrible stuff just needn't have happened at all. I'd like to think that could be avoided if it all possible.

And what about the 80% who would desist if left untreated? Are they just collateral damage?

I don't doubt there are issues with self ID. Women absolutely deserve their own spaces too but as it stands the equality act allows for trans women except in rare cases to access those spaces too. That's just the law, what I think about it doesn't really matter. However, what I will say is that Victoria station in London has a great gender neutral single stall toilet. This is a far nicer experience than stood crossing your legs in the queue for the ladies.

When I say denying a child treatment I think of a child being denied help and then going into a downward spiral in an effort to make it all go away due to unsupportive parents

children should be given full and thorough counselling, which explores in depth the roots of their distress and discomfort. That is not what is happening, though. Family therapy might well be useful in many circumstances, I imagine. Children form part of the web of family relationships and expectations.

As for the baying mob in Brighton I thought the police actions were consistent with one of the attendees being a bit more of a problem

Can you say some more about that? It's not something I've seen reported?