M&S + John Lewis - your poor Christmas sales will be due to the contempt you've shown your female customers

[Sunkisses]

It's all over the news that M&S and John Lewis have had terrible Christmas sales. I am absolutely sure this is due to the terrible press coverage they received and viral threads of Twitter about how they allow men into the female changing rooms, the contempt they treated their female customers with when we voiced our complaints, and the 1,000s of us who pledged not to shop with them over Christmas. I stuck by my pledge over Christmas and they lost about £1,000 of custom from me with gifts and food. Anyone else kept up their boycott?

An ad for a “revolutionary” bra popped up in my Instagram feed. This was the image that appeared. Clicking on the ad it was all women, so I’m confused as to the intended audience. Not John Lewis I know, but certainly women’s underwear.

I’ve just spent £120 in Asda - school uniform, underwear and socks/tights. Would normally have ordered from M&S. Knickers looks really good and not expensive either.

I’ve just spent £120 in Asda - school uniform, underwear and socks/tights. Would normally have ordered from M&S. Knickers looks really good and not expensive either
Curious, did you take a black light and check stuff? I'm not even joking when I admit I'm thinking of doing just this.

Yes, the underwear reviews from blokes on their website (Why the fuck they even allow them is a mystery) means I won’t buy anything other than boring multipacks that don’t appeal to men with fetishes

ahh but its not a fetish remember (thread deleted yesterday for even suggesting it might be in some cases, even though their are published papers on the topic), its a normal expression of their innate ladyness. Strange how they go for all the frilly, lacey, nylon ones which most women avoid as they give you thrush but leaves the nice, practical cotton multipacks that women actually wear uninterfered with at least.

It had never occurred to me before today how odd it is that on the M&S website there are sections for mens and women's clothing, and the men's underwear is within the men's section, but the women's underwear, designed to fit their anatomy, is in a whole section by itself called lingerie. A quick glance at the review section for thongs tells you why.

I dont think it has anything to do with mumsnet. The members here seem to think they make an impact on big things but in reality all this is is one angry group slagging off another angry group and getting a sense of power from other members of their angry group.

Both of these businesses have been struggling in line with the rest of the economy.

Honestly not bothered what impact my choices have on M&S. What I'm talking about here is why I will no longer be using them, and putting that info where other women can see it. Because I was definitely glad that other women told me, and shared that information. Not planning to stop doing that because it might not have a big enough impact, or because it's not supposed to be 'nice' to be slagging off a shop doing things that as their customer I'm deeply unhappy with. Not sure why you see M&S as an angry group, unless you have inside information there?

Whether or not M&S are bright enough to realise the harm they're doing to their brand is their look out.

Same here, I'm not doing it to hurt them in that sense (I can't spend enough there to make a difference) but I can stop shopping there and feel better about myself, that I am not involved with a company that uses women to prop up men's fetishes.

I am not involved with a company that uses women to prop up men's fetishes.

Might make this my 2020 mantra.

Nah @Glaceon

Dangerfloof I made sure I only bought from unopened packets. Forewarned is forearmed.

And not foreskinned, we hope.

I'm a bit of a lurker on here but do occasionally post. I have made a conscious effort not to buy so much as a sandwich from M&S since this debacle. Admittedly I had already part-boycotted them due to a temporary Christmas job I had with them years ago when I saw how badly they treated their staff (and food-storage issues, mice etc) so it wasn't that difficult.
The thing is, I have mentioned the changing rooms/online lingerie reviews to friends and family in passing, all of whom were horrified, so I like to think I have raised awareness.
Much as I don't want businesses to go "bust", they need to listen to their customers. As has been said repeatedly by more eloquent posters, they told me they didn't value my custom so I have obliged by shopping elsewhere.

they told me they didn't value my custom so I have obliged by shopping elsewhere

When somebody tells you who they are, believe them

You're not alone Pearlkent. There's a real cognitive dissonance going on in M & S. At a time when there's an increase in covert filming by men of women in changing rooms & toilets, upskirting and posting these images on internet sites, M & S respond by opening up their women's changing rooms to any man who fancies access. It makes little sense unless they really are heading for a more niche "fetish" customer base rather than all us women / parents / families that I thought were their core demographic?
And people do seem to be aware of this odd decision and are fairly unanimous in their distaste.

I am another one, would spend at Xmas on luxury food, treat myself to a nice meal and treats from there every fortnight or so and buy all underwear from there. Haven't set foot in there for months. Its not much compared to some people but it means alot to me.

"My friend was in @marksandspencer Watford when a man came into the women's changing room. He came in because M&S have removed the word woman from the sign. We don't want equal access to the men's room we want the word woman back on the female changing area. Thanks t.co/6BPqf1jCIb "

twitter.com/RadFemPirate/status/1216347167692115968?s=19

It’s just like all the gender neutral loos. Mens facilities are retained (that’s the subtext of noting the urinals - not for you, women) and women’s are a free for all, effectively reducing women’s. This practice needs to challenged in the courts on sex discrimination grounds.

Reducing women’s provision...

I don’t think it’s /just/ the changing rooms thing, but they’ve seemed weirdly out of step with their core demographic for a while. Look at the clothing they sell. They’ve had a couple of bad years which seem to be worse than you might predict based on general trading conditions.

I don’t particularly want them to go out of business - they employ a lot of mainly women, by the look of the shop floor, and they’re a long standing British brand. I’d like them to listen and evolve. I’d be pleased to stop boycotting them, but at the moment my principles override my desire for new tights.

I'm very happy with the step away from corporate (especially Woke) capitalism M&S and their misogyny has pushed me into.

I'm doing more to support independents in an environment where local high streets are struggling.

I've reduced my food miles.

I've helped a woman who's trying to grow her business so that she can get off UC.

I've found a clothing store that knows what a woman is.

I've cut down my transport costs.

I've put more cash into my local rural economy.

So I'd pretty much say that M&S has lost my business for good and also that this is a good thing, not only for women, but in general ethical terms. I'm grateful to M&S for their stark, brazen misogyny, really. It made me get off my arse and do better.

Yes to everything you said, @LangCleg.

I bought nothing from M&S. Nothing to do with the changing room issue though. Their clothes are awful - they don't know their customer anymore. The sizing is erratic. Quality is poor. Let the virtue-signallers think it's the changing room thing if it makes them feel better. But for me, and probably lots of others, they need a wholesale sacking of their management and fashion designers and quality control managers if they want a better future.

So now there's designated men only changing areas and other men's changing areas where women are allowed in. Basic discrimination. Less favourable treatment based on the protected characteristic of sex. QED. Can we persuade FPFW to bring the case? The compensation pay out should be pretty good and that would finance plenty of leaflets and conferences.

Wholly agree with Lang : Woke Capitalism can fottfsof. Woke has just become another word for self righteous misogyny.

And I'd also like, in Lang's very positive spirit, to mention and thank Always, for their ending my buying of disposable sanwear and moving on to reusable. Gosh the difference when you're not wearing harsh chemicals against your skin, and nothing to landfill. Wins all around.

Lang "It made me get off my arse and do better."

It's the wrong kind of "do better" though. You know that

Suggest you go "educate yourself"

Nope, 'do better' doesn't mean what it used to mean ten minutes ago Bobbly

It has been inclusified and repurposed and now means whatever the fuck Lang wants it to mean Other Things.