M&S + John Lewis - your poor Christmas sales will be due to the contempt you've shown your female customers

[Sunkisses]

It's all over the news that M&S and John Lewis have had terrible Christmas sales. I am absolutely sure this is due to the terrible press coverage they received and viral threads of Twitter about how they allow men into the female changing rooms, the contempt they treated their female customers with when we voiced our complaints, and the 1,000s of us who pledged not to shop with them over Christmas. I stuck by my pledge over Christmas and they lost about £1,000 of custom from me with gifts and food. Anyone else kept up their boycott?

I maintain my boycott, and will continue to do so indefinitely if need be.

Didn’t buy a single thing from them over Christmas and birthdays in Nov/Dec, haven’t even looked at their sales in Jan. Won’t set foot in store again, nor browse their site.

I live right next to an M&S, I did a lot of my shopping there. I will not be back.

They told me clearly to fuck off, so I did.

There are 12 million unique users of mumsnet, per month. Mostly women. And JK Rowling got a very swift 200,000 likes to her post.

That's a lot of people.

Gerald Ratner went bust without the Internet to add fuel to the fire. Over one, single, solitary comment.

I haven't shopped there this. I've also taken the chance to speak to others. My nail technician was horrified and had no idea they let men into women's changing rooms.

I do not believe that women boycotting M&S or JL was the main or even a significant reason for their poor performance over Christmas, but it would have played a part. I cancelled my M&S account at the start of November and have not shopped there since. I would normally have spent a lot of money on food there over Christmas, as well as at Waitrose, but found good alternatives instead. I've found it surprisingly easy to avoid M&S, which in itself perhaps helps to explain its falling sales etc. The utter contempt it has shown longstanding and previously loyal customers means I won't be shopping there again unless and until their policy changes.

When the christmas advert was released on their twitter feed there were many many comments mentioning their changing room policy. So I dont think did go unnoticed.

Must also add, I no longer shop with JL/Waitrose either.

I’m with jhuizimga it will have played a part. My main Christmas shop was with a local farm shop - previously always had an M&S turkey - I will now shop at the local farm shop more. You don’t piss off your core market especially when retail is tough as your competitors pick up the sales. Christmas presents where I would have gone to M&S or JL first I went elsewhere. They lost a lot of money from me.

Much shopping behaviour is borne of habit. The one thing retailers in a hostile economic environment should not do is piss off even a small percentage of loyal customers to the extent that they break their habit. Like I said - the quickest way of losing customers for good. They make new habits and they never go back.

The Red Wall of voters didn't crumble overnight. But by the time the complacent Labour Party noticed it was too late. Same principles for voting and shopping.

I would suggest M&S loses the complacency.

I emailed M&S about their polices after one standard email they ignored the rest of my emails well guess what I don’t shop there anymore.

Same, and neither do four other members of my family. Between us we would usually have spent somewhere in the region of £1,000 in M&S over Christmas in food and presents. We all went elsewhere.

To dispute that their policy change had at least some impact and not to acknowledge that it has contributed to their drop in sales is ridiculous, the retail equivalent of sticking their fingers in their ears and going "la la la we can't hear you uppity women."

I didn't shop in JL this year, everything was laid out too haphazardly.
I didn't shop in M&S at all this year - and I always buy Christmas food and some clothing there - because a) the products are awful and b) they allow men into women's changing rooms and won't give any woman a decent reply. They show me contempt, I'll return it.

Another one who has maintained my boycott - food & flowers at Christmas, clothes, their cafe and an M & S account cancelled. And interestingly haven't missed them at all.
One of their USPs is lingerie sales and bra fitting. To insist that women must receive this service in the company of males is to treat women with contempt. No women anywhere are demanding to share facilities with men - this is a male led / Stonewall etc led demand and if they want to piss off their women customers - that's up to them. But this woman customer won't be returning.

I wonder if they will be more interested in listening to their female (ex-)customers now.

I wonder if they will be more interested in listening to their female (ex-)customers now.

Sadly, whilst the shareholders allow the same people to run the company who won't listen to anybody else but still keep taking massive salaries and bonuses, they won't.

For every one person who posts on Mumsnet there are about 20 lurkers. Women are 51% of the population, and they do the majority of the shopping.

Yes and those lurkers have friends and family... just sayin'

I'm hugely GC but exactly as I know that the vast majority of the population don't even know that trans etc is a thing, the vast majority of department store shoppers don't either

I think more and more do - in the last week, I've had conversations with 3 women and it's come up! Not fellow feminists who share my views, just another mum from the school gate, a woman in a cafe, and my mother (who I speak to perhaps once every 6 months).

Women certainly are noticing, and becoming informed, and holding opinions (and all the women's opinions above were GC)

I'm with MorrisZapp. There are a lot of more likely reasons for poor Christmas sales

All supermarkets were affected.

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/09/tesco-sales-win-out-in-subdued-christmas-for-uk-supermarkets

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/07/supermarkets-christmas-sales-boris-morrisons-brexit

I think retail has struggled in general this Christmas, so there's that.

I'm wondering how Flora are doing....

Aldi and Lidl have had a a Merry Christmas....

Treestumps I recently went out with half a dozen ex colleagues who all work in either a reportedly very 'woke' university or the NHS and I know one of the places has a very vocal transwoman manager and a very lively LGBT society, and all of them were quietly appalled by the trans narrative but in fear of speaking out. All of them were also astonished at the speed of change of language and policy in places most of them had worked for years.

It was never discussed or even mentioned when I worked with them less than 18 months ago. More people are indeed becoming aware. And in my experience are not at all happy with the changes.

I hadn’t realised that JL were being boycotted as well as Marks - but it wouldn’t have made any difference.

I tried to do a shop in JL for an outfit to wear to a wedding. Close family, wanted to look nice so would have bought shoes, hat, bag etc if needed as well as the main outfit.

But it turns out that they don’t actually want me to spend money any more in store - I’ve put on weight and needed something larger than a size 18 - and whereas they have always had a small plus size area that had both everyday and special stuff, now there’s nothing.

There is now just one small plus size shoo in the shopping centre (a ‘yours’ which doesn’t have a great selection, much of which falls in the cheap and unflattering category. House of Fraser and Debenhams both have the same ‘size 18 or under’ policy although occasionally the odd 20 slips through in Debenhams -albeit you can’t rely on finding any as they all sell out quickly.

They need to look around - there are loads of size 20+ customers who would love to be trying on clothes in their stores and who have traditionally always found something at them that are now struggling to find clothes. It’s not good enough to say they stock larger sizes online - I can’t afford to order several outfits to try on, especially if I’m not sure of cut or relative sizing for the brand or how accurate the coloir is or if timescales are short.

In the end I bought a brand new Studio 8 dress of eBay for less than a quarter of its real price, taking a punt that the sizing would be ok based on a dress I had tried on before and luckily it paid off and I was able to wear it. But JL were selling the smaller sizes of the dress so lost out on my purchase.

Given the size of the population, especially as people get 30 and older, can they really justify not having anything bigger in store than a size 18?

I usually pop into M&S a couple of times a week, I use the local food hall as most use a local shop (it's most convenient for us- new estate without a shop in it!) Usually spend maybe £40ish a week in the local food hall on odds and sods
Since I first read about this I haven't used them.
We usually buy a lot of food over Christmas at M&S too, and birthday cakes, presents for the neighbours and bras for myself and DD.

I decided as a woman who's concerns dont matter that neither does my money, and took it elsewhere

The penis owner in our household prefers Asda.

Of course it’s not the only reason. But it would certainly have made quite a dent in their profits in the most important quarter of the year.

I’m sorry for the staff (for many reasons - a couple of which being that the mostly female assistants from now on will be compelled to fit bras for potentially overtly sexually aroused men if they demand it, plus apparently being responsible for challenging any predatory men who might be acting inappropriately in the women’s and girls’ areas and fitting rooms), but as for the company itself? Nah. They deserve everything they get.

What @snowblight said.

I think if people (Women) think about it, then of course the erosion of female rights is dreadful, but to be honest in the real work it’s not something I think comes up much.