M&S + John Lewis - your poor Christmas sales will be due to the contempt you've shown your female customers

[Sunkisses]

It's all over the news that M&S and John Lewis have had terrible Christmas sales. I am absolutely sure this is due to the terrible press coverage they received and viral threads of Twitter about how they allow men into the female changing rooms, the contempt they treated their female customers with when we voiced our complaints, and the 1,000s of us who pledged not to shop with them over Christmas. I stuck by my pledge over Christmas and they lost about £1,000 of custom from me with gifts and food. Anyone else kept up their boycott?

[SunkissesBringBackLangCleg]

@Al1Langdownthecleghole I looked at that Times article about the appointment of Dame Sharon White as CEO of John Lewis and it does still mention 'diversity': "She said that the mutual group would have to improve the diversity of its partners to reflect society better"

The Guardian say she told managers they need to “improve the diversity of the partners we are hiring”.

As you say, sounds like she is more interested in identity politics than good old fashioned customer service, and making sure her female customers - women and girls - feel respected and safe. We will see... I hope she doesn't find out the hard way that #GoWokeGoBroke. 1,000s of people's jobs are relying on her not to alienate the core female market

[SunkissesBringBackLangCleg]

@SunsetBeetch that reply from M&S to the male who wanted to use the female changing rooms is chilling, as was this reply showing they want to discipline the poor member of staff who wants to protect women and girls: mobile.twitter.com/marksandspencer/status/1223529802231111680

These companies are so screwed. Are there any grown ups in these companies monitoring their social media? Are there any grown ups looking at Mumsnet? I'm assuming that social media/customer service work is all completely devolved to woke young millennials who are completely misrepresenting the public reaction to their bosses, blithely reassuring them all is well and it's nothing to worry about, and they're on the 'right side of history' and the law (they're not). And the grown ups are not paying the slightest attention, thinking the woke kids have got it covered

[Lordfrontpaw]

(I genuinely wish her well and hope that she is a sane and level head that the company needs).

[Lordfrontpaw]

It wasn’t exactly what we weren’t considering. I’m just a bit surprised they didn’t go the whole way iykwim for maximum inclusive points.

[Al1Langdownthecleghole]

The Times report of the same story was saying yesterday that Dame Sharon’s number one priority was to increase diversity amongst its staff. The article has since been updated and that particular paragraph removed.

There isn’t a lot of focus on customers.

[Catting]

www.dailymail.co.uk/money/markets/article-7975307/John-Lewis-cut-jobs-survive-challenging-period-history-new-boss-warns.html

Wow. Almost as if treating your target customer base as an afterthought isn't helping things!?

[Lamahaha]

Yes, exactly. Not likely, but it is a possibility.

But the main thing is: many women were queuing, waiting. I didn't stick around to ask whether the male stalls were empty and if they obeyed the signs, but the very concept prioritises men. I have not seen this anywhere else, ever.

I didn't join the queue. I went upstairs in the same shopping centre and there I found a lovely, clean, women's loo with many stalls, some of which were empty.

[Januarydontbecool]

@Lamahaha, what an odd set up.

So, if all the cubicles were in use a woman could expect to have men occupying cubicles on both sides of her?

[Lordfrontpaw]

I don’t think the article mentioned a damehood but yes that’s her!

[SingingLily]

The former chief executive officer of Ofcom

Dame Sharon White?

[Lordfrontpaw]

Does this work?

Sharon White is the new outsider tapped to save John Lewis
Sharon White has never held an executive post in British retail, or in any other commercial business for that matter. Yet the career civil servant has been entrusted with steering one the country’s best-known store chains through its greatest period of disruption in recent times.

Read in Bloomberg: apple.news/AE_zstXwDSKmG5bSH7s0ehg

[Lamahaha]

I had the opportunity to visit the M&S store in Enniskillen, Northern Ireland, on Saturday. I walked through the lingerie department on the ground floor and found the changing rooms. There is no designation on them, it just says Changing Rooms. I assume that means anyone.

Next door were the toilets, one door, and it did have the usual M and F sign. So far, so good.
I went in to have a look. The set-up there is rather unusual. Only one toilet area. There was a row of cubicle doors, and a queue of women outside, waiting. Each cubicle door had a male or female sign on it, alternately.

I'm guessing that most men wouldn't need to queue so would they just queue jump to go straight to the door designated for them? How would the women like this? Or, if those stalls are empty, would the queuing women use them rather than wait? There were no urinals and no washbasins outside of the stall area, so basins I assume are inside the stalls.

I find this a very awkward and unsatisfactory solution. If the male and female cubicles are not in separate areas, it means all have to queue together, and as it was situated in the women's lingerie section, there will be few men using it. Yet there was an equal number of male and female cubicles.

I think women should take back the male ones.

I did not buy anything. I went just to look.

[OhHolyJesus]

Can't see anything about a new CEO Lord have you got a link.

I laughed at this

Marks & Spencer reported a decline in third-quarter sales on Thursday as the clothing and home segment underperformed

www.sharecast.com/news/news-and-announcements/marks-spencer-q3-sales-decline-as-clothing-underperforms--7218968.html

Gosh I wonder why? Discounted clothing is blamed, bet they don't want to look into other reasons as to why the demographic of their customer, or lack therefore, has changed and a bunch of us have disappeared entirely.

[Lordfrontpaw]

So I see that have a new chief exec.

She ‘has never held an executive post in British retail, or in any other commercial business for that matter. Yet the career civil servant has been entrusted with steering one the country’s best-known store chains through its greatest period of disruption in recent times.

The former chief executive officer of Ofcom, the U.K. communications regulator...’ (from Bloomberg news)

I’m sure she is brilliant - but with no retail experience I hope she is a good listener and has a good supportive team around her. Maybe she will listen to women?

[SorryAuntLydia]

Oh good spot @Januarydontbecool all of my local M&S stores list separate men’s and women’s changing rooms on their store info online but not in-store. I think that will be an interesting conversation to have with them. And possibly a report to the ASA as a breach of the CAP code.

[Januarydontbecool]

Like my local branch, Bluewater has a Lingerie fitting room but it doesn’t say so on the Bluewater page on the M&S website.

[theflushedzebra]

Bluewater does. Its "Lingerie fitting room" on the sign. Didn't specify sex or gender at all. I walked through last week and deliberately checked it out, because I wanted to see if it said "women's". It doesn't.

[Januarydontbecool]

I’ve looked at the details of a small sample of M&S branches on their main website and under store information they all include (sample from Birmingham, but it seems to be exactly the same onthem all)

“Fitting rooms(men)
Fitting rooms(women)”

which is just misleading.

I haven’t found any yet which say “Fitting rooms - Lingerie.”

[TheProdigalKittensReturn]

I wonder how much lingerie each man who's into that sort of thing buys. It'll have to be a lot to make up for the loss of business from women.

[LangClegSupportersClub]

Presumably they think going after this new market will make up for the customers they alienate. I feel like they ought to let female customers know their changing rooms are no longer single sex.

[theflushedzebra]

Well, I suppose at least we know now. This is not a mistake, not a lack of knowledge, but a deliberate policy to include males in the female changing rooms.

They are "very sorry" that they told a male they had to be dressed in women's clothing. Very sorry they made that male feel uncomfortable.

They feel no such sorrow at any women expressing their discomfort.

I walked through M&S Bluewater the other day - it does not say "Female Changing" anymore, in the very large lingerie section. It's say's "Lingerie Fitting Room". Anyone clearly welcome.

[Languishingfemale]

Don't suppose they'll ever back down. Funny to think that safety and women's comfort doesn't matter to M & S.
Wasn't a man convicted last week for upskirting and filming women in their changing rooms?

[BillyCotton]

Utter contempt. The trouble is you have to try every bra on because the sizing has never been reliable.

[SunsetBeetch]

They really do hold us in utter contempt.

"Hi @marksandspencer adult human female and former loyal customer, I have tweeted concerns to you for over 6 months, no reply, all I had to do was say I was a man wanting to access to the ladies changing room to try on ladies underwear to get a response from you, shame on you."

twitter.com/millar_marion/status/1223946747371827200?s=19

"Tomorrow, I have a bra fitting at @marksandspencer. I have been told that they will only serve me if I'm "dressed as a woman."

Given that I was raised by a mother who spent 99% of her waking hours in t-shirt and jeans, how am I supposed to interpret this?

Here begins a thread: "

twitter.com/jobrydon/status/1223393985064062977?s=19

"Hi Jo, thanks for taking the time to get in touch with us. I'm very concerned to hear about how you were spoken to when you made the booking. 1/2"

twitter.com/marksandspencer/status/1223529712053620744?s=19

[peachescariad]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50313770
Apologies if this has been posted by PPs....check out the comments...only one mentions the fact that poor sales might be down to M&S allowing men into women's changing rooms, and their first comment was removed.
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