M&S + John Lewis - your poor Christmas sales will be due to the contempt you've shown your female customers

[Sunkisses]

It's all over the news that M&S and John Lewis have had terrible Christmas sales. I am absolutely sure this is due to the terrible press coverage they received and viral threads of Twitter about how they allow men into the female changing rooms, the contempt they treated their female customers with when we voiced our complaints, and the 1,000s of us who pledged not to shop with them over Christmas. I stuck by my pledge over Christmas and they lost about £1,000 of custom from me with gifts and food. Anyone else kept up their boycott?

I'm on a very low income but shop at local independents - just not posh ones. We found a butcher, a farm-shop, a yarn-shop, a sewing-shop, a hard-ware shop, a greengrocer, etc that are all run by working class people, some men, some women, some families. And all cheaper for what you get than supermakets. We have a market and the stalls sell all sorts of interesting and inexpensive things. Plus we found an Asian supermarket which is run on a small-scale and seems to be a family-run business. And all these places seem to be run by really lovely people that we can chat with and that do all sorts of things in our community. We go to Aldi for basic cupboard stuffs.
I'm never going to spend enough to keep anyone in business or put them out but it works for me. It makes shopping enjoyable and I'm happy that my money goes where it goes.

I forget who the scum are now? Is that us? The middle aged women of Mumsnet? Or is that the transexuals who know they are still male? Who are the truscum again?

Many posters here are saying that even if policies are changed they won't be back. I'm not sure what incentive shops have to change their policies on trans customers then really...

I don't know that most of them are doing it out of pettiness though. By having to look elsewhere they found businesses that provide better products, or which are truly local, etc. So why would they go back?

That's the danger of making a really unpopular policy like this. Though I doubt they realised how strongly people would feel. My sense is that a number of businesses have really misread the public feeling on certain questions. Or they have made decisions after being told that they were obligated to or soon would be.

’Truscum’ are the old-school transsexuals who are well aware that they are, and always will be, male.

Such nasty language, isn’t it.

They will need to adapt their policy at some point because if they don’t they will keep losing their loyal customer base.

First rule of retail, don’t alienate your core customer base! Once you’ve lost them, you’ll have to work ten times harder to get them back.

In the real world, most women do not want men present in their private, intimate spaces. Go woke, go broke. Quite literally. Women hold the household spending power in the vast majority of cases.

Many posters here are saying that even if policies are changed they won't be back.

I'd be back like a shot. Unlike many on the thread I am not dismissive of the quality of lots of M&S stuff and there were things I got there that I haven't found elsewhere, or have only found imperfect substitutes. This has been a difficult boycott for me because I used M&S weekly for food and regularly for knickers, tights and vest tops...but I'm sticking with it for as long as M&S are happy to allow men into women's changing rooms, because women's rights are important to me.

Many posters here are saying that even if policies are changed they won't be back. I'm not sure what incentive shops have to change their policies on trans customers then really
Its probably because we all found alternatives already. We would none of us have looked without this impetus. So they can only blame themselves. So my pipers farm Christmas meat was fabulous quality and not much more cost. My presents came from typo and bookishly and Cox and Cox and with various promos and codes came to similar amounts. All without the hassle of leaving my house.
Also just when will they openly, publicly, widely state their position on any body in any area?

I also doubt it was anything to do with that.

The M&S in my town closed this year, but I had already stopped shopping there. I usually buy a couple of dresses for work there each year, and used to shop for food items. The only one near me now is a food store, and I've stopped using that. I bought a couple of Maxmara and Reiss dresses off eBay for less than the cost of M&S.
I've never really shopped at John Lewis or Waitrose as there are none near, but I've stopped buying from them online. So in total these shops have lost hundreds of pounds from me in the past year.

I’d be back to m&S in a shot too. I used to do all the school uniform shop on there. I always bought the kids knickers and tights with it, possibly PJs too. DO twice a year I do a big order to see the kids through the season. It wasn’t so easy. Now I’m having to source from multiple shops and its a pain.

I’ll reevaluate at such a time as they come out and clearly say that they got it wrong, and show a sincere understanding of how utterly contemptuous of women and girls they have been. By that time I may well have found a range of better businesses to spend my money with.

Transsexuals who oppose self id/NB nonsense/no need to transition/no need for doctors or gate keeping are TRUSCUM

Anyone on mumsnet is just MUMSCUM

Just because

I’d be back if only to support a business not afraid to speak the truth.

"Many posters here are saying that even if policies are changed they won't be back. I'm not sure what incentive shops have to change their policies on trans customers then really..."

Pour encourager les autres.

’ll reevaluate at such a time as they come out and clearly say that they got it wrong, and show a sincere understanding of how utterly contemptuous of women and girls they have been.

IYou would have thought though, that after the thing that women were concerned about actually happened then a rethink might be in order. But it appears not.

I'm another who did not spend money in M&S this Christmas. I would generally spend £150 - £300 there on Christmas presents.

I also used to spend £100s over the year too - on clothing for Dh & I and 3 children - school uniform, coats for the kids, shirts for DH, pants, socks, underwear for me, pyjamas.

But unfortunately, I cannot erase from my brain the images of the males leaving reviews on women's underwear online, or the pictures on twitter of cross-dressers announcing that they "put the knickers back in the middle of the rail to hide the wet patch."

I'm not shopping where this is OK.

Many posters here are saying that even if policies are changed they won't be back.

I’m really missing their Autograph cotton rich opaque tights and haven’t (yet) been able to find a suitable alternative. If they have a rethink and apologise to their female customers, I’ll return for tights as a minimum. Otherwise, I’m eking out the ones I have in my drawer until spring. If that means wearing trousers to work a bit more than usual this winter, so be it.

I’d go back if they reversed the policy and issued a statement. There were several items that I liked and haven’t found suitable replacements yet.

I'd go back to M&S if they reversed this policy and got rid of the gender marker on their online reviews for women's lingerie. I do like M&S for a lot of stuff - good quality basics for the family mainly.

Some of their houseware is lovely too - I like their sheets & duvet covers. We bought our lovely bed & mattress from there - over £1500. Along with many Mumsnetters here, I would have thought my family was M&S's core market - we have a fair bit of disposable income, and a large family to buy for - yet they've alienated me with this changing room policy, and their lack of consideration for women.

I'm not sure I'd ever buy their women's underwear off the rack in store now though. Some things you just can't un-know.

I'm not sure I'd ever buy their women's underwear off the rack in store now though. Some things you just can't un-know
Yeuch
I wont buy underwear off the rack at any store ever again. Struggling cos I actually need new knickers. Probably a multipack that's not been obviously opened but its gross that I have to think this way and carefully check each pack to see if they've ever been tampered with. I mean I doubt Asda cheap 5 packs have been near a man, they go for shiny sparkly satiny things but who actually knows?

I'm not sure I'd ever buy their women's underwear off the rack in store now though. Some things you just can't un-know

So much this, I suspect it's going to be cheap multi packs from supermarkets as I assume/hope they don't do it for those with a fetish. But bit pissed off that now I can afford nice undies I don't want to buy any unless they could be guaranteed untouched

Yes, the underwear reviews from blokes on their website (Why the fuck they even allow them is a mystery) means I won’t buy anything other than boring multipacks that don’t appeal to men with fetishes

Buy from Bam online, I switched to them and their knickers are simple but feel lovely

Buy from Bam online, I switched to them and their knickers are simple but feel lovely
So are they likely to have been tried on by males who leave calling cards as it were? Are they able to do this then return them? Because I'm not sure I want to take the risk. At the moment I would rather go commando than buy knickers. And I have stress incontinence so that's a really bad idea.

I'm not sure I'd ever buy their women's underwear off the rack in store now though. Some things you just can't un-know

Yes, that was what finished me off. And the whole gleeful 'women don't go barefoot in the cubicles after me' stuff. There is nothing M&S could make that would be worth the revolting realities of their manky changing rooms and used undies to make their male customers 'comfortable'.