Are you in Devon, Bristol, North Somerset or South Gloucestershire? Tell NHS your view on trans guidelines NOW

[anotherFOIrequester]

Happy New Year!

Starting a new thread with the aim of putting all the information in one place as I now have a clearer picture.

Old thread here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3755711-Help-FOI-request-trans-guidance-in-NHS-in-South-West?pg=1

The NHS CCG for Bristol, North Somerset and South Gloucestershire are adopting 'best practice' guidance for trans patients that you can read here:

bnssgccg-media.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/attachments/govbody_5Nov19_item6.4.pdf

There is no consideration of women or anyone else with protected characteristics, eg 'Providing education to other service users in a ward to prevent ignorant or transphobic comments is, if successful, a better solution than having to protect or isolate the trans service user'.
There has been no equality impact assessment, no risk assessment and no consultation with patients who don't identify as transgender.

The guidance is produced by Bristol charity SARI (Stand Against Racism and Inequality) but the meeting minutes below reveal that the lead writer is Cheryl Morgan, director of the Diversity Trust:

bnssgccg-media.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/attachments/govbody_3Dec19_item3.pdf

Morgan is a transwoman who attended a menopause event and claims the ability to breastfeed:

medium.com/@elsaegret/abusive-misogynist-activist-writes-nhs-policy-in-bristol-21dd02cc4c9c

Morgan has also used abusive language to women for many years:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-used-violent-transgender-activist-for-equality-training-x0mktgclw

SARI and the Diversity Trust have form:

medium.com/@elsaegret/stitch-up-bristol-fashion-f1eb298e28da

The guidance also features the logos of North Bristol NHS Trust and Devon Partnership NHS Trust. I have FOIs pending with both of them to establish what's happening there.

In response to women contacting the BNSSG CCG, they are now conducting an EIA, for what that's worth.

The good thing is we are disrupting the usual 'under-the-radar' proceedings before this is signed off - this is the time to contact them if you're in those areas, or if you're in Devon, or if you live elsewhere but use those NHS services.

Bristol/South Glos/North Som: [email protected]

North Bristol NHS Trust: [email protected]

Devon Partnership NHS Trust: [email protected]

OK, now have the FOI response on cost.

The amount of taxpayers' money the NHS spent on this was...

£6700.

FFS. Nearly 7 grand on decreasing women's access to healthcare.

What a world.

Is this the level of expertise we can expect to be grought to the EIA?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3791740-The-NHS-thinks-that-sexual-orientation-is-about-being-transgender

I had a response: "Our equality colleagues are currently formulating a response to the questions that have been raised and this process will take several weeks." They will provide an update by Friday 6 March.

lassiters thanks for writing to them.

FOI responses from North Bristol NHS Trust, Devon Partnership Trust, and Priory Healthcare (their logo is on the guidance and their NHS services are FOI-able) are now overdue.

The CCG Inclusion staff are currently reluctantly carrying out the Impact assessment. They were supposed to invite people to comment but haven't (yet, perhaps they've forgotten).

Please write to your CCG's Inclusion staff requesting specifically to contribute to the EIA. Alternatively, you may wish to resend your email stating this time you are specifically contributing to the trans guidance equality impact assessment and want the issues you raise included so the NHS cannot ignore them.

Bear in mind previous bad EIA's (see @anotherFOIrequester above)
and keep it very clear for dippy staff who don't want to face the issues or don't understand them.

This is important as when NHS England did an impact assessment ages ago it was only a few lines and just said vaguely that mixed sex/ single gender wards wouldn't bother most people but old people wouldn't like it! (can someone post a link as I can't find it?).

They ignored all other protected groups, ignored the Equality Act's provision for single sex wards, made no mention of women's need for privacy, dignity and safety, didn't make arrangements for those with religious/ cutural objections, ignored the distressing impact on abused women , the risks to teenage transmen on male wards, the fact some women have been attacked by transwomen, the triggering trauma caused to rape victims by intimate spaces and the fact that safeguarding policies apply to all of us, however we identify- not all of us except transwomen.

And thanks for writing, without the contributions of all of you this guidance would be in use already without any consideration for women.

Yes thank you everyone, as Watermonster says this would already be in use without you all. Excellent advice above Water!

Please write to your MPs too.

The plot thickens... got FOI responses from North Bristol and from Devon (nothing from Priory).

Devon say that their input was via the Bristol Dementia Wellbeing Service, and said input was on the 'Trans Employees' section...

No I don't understand why that would be how things work either.

N Bris say... absolutely nothing basically. Will follow up when I have time. Links in my post saying they were overdue.

Actually, that's not quite correct.
N Bris said 'ask SARI'. Have emailed them.

Nothing back from SARI yet.

According to the minutes of the January Governing Body meeting, the CCG chief exec, Julia Ross, said the CCG is going to meet with members of the public who've contacted them about this.

I haven't had any such invitation - anyone else?

bnssgccg.nhs.uk/library/governing-body-paper-4-february-2020-item-3/

No, not had anything like that.

I haven't either. I've now been told the CCG are consulting with womens groups inc Womens Voice Bristol, who have a consultation out (but want to know if you are the gender you were assigned at birth..mmmm- wonder if the CCG is only consulting with groups who allow males to self ID as women) - Here it is uwe.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_6Q0NGrIKk0q2e4l

Has anyone asked the CCG for their invitation? I will do so...

@Watermonster article in my OP mentions Women's Voice.
The director of SARI - producers of this guidance - was dropping heavy hints about funding to women's groups:

''Despite the long list of invitees, the email Alex Raikes, director of SARI, sent in the early hours of Sunday July 15th 2018 was only to representatives of SARI, the Diversity Trust, Bristol Zero Tolerance, Avon and Somerset Police, Bristol City Council, Bristol Women’s Voice, Bristol Pride, University of Bristol, University of the West of England, Off The Record, LGBT Bristol and One25. I presume these are the organisations that engaged with the invitation, while the others invited ignored or declined it. She wrote (my bolding):
‘Further to my e-mail stating that we had to cancel the working group meeting to progress the ‘Trans Inclusive Women’s Services for Bristol — A Road Map’. Sadly, it became untenable for SARI to continue to run this piece of work. I had concerns shared with me by a number of people about their not feeling safe or able to contribute freely. In particular Trans people feeling that their safety could be compromised if they participated and other people saying they felt unable to be open about their views in case they were deemed Transphobic. I also felt SARI’s reputation and integrity was being called into question. I decided therefore that this piece of work has become untenable for any local community/ VCS group to lead on — as they are likely to be criticised and misinterpreted for trying to achieve the bottom lines.
I have now met with the Council and Avon & Somerset Constabulary and they have agreed to get permission to lead on producing guidance based on the work we have done so far for providing Trans Inclusive Gender Dedicated Services and also running safe and lawful/ respectful Gender/ Sex related events or meetings.
We (SARI, Diversity Trust) will not be continuing with a Road Map i.e. we don’t feel organising a public meeting or further working group meetings will be productive as things stand. Clearly if anyone else wants to do this they can.
Instead I hope that Bristol City Council and the Police can (as statutory partners) finalise guidance re: the legal and good practice position and offering links to agencies that can help anyone who needs it to achieve lawful and best practice services and events (with zero tolerance to any form of hate crime) then disseminate it and link it to the Equality Charter and funding/ commissioning arrangements.''

Hi all - I’m Sam Smith - I edit current affairs and Politics at BBCSW. And hi to the fab woman I met at WomensLib2020 - sorry I’ve lost your contact details! Really interested in this as you know. Do you have my number still?

@Totaleclipse84

Glad you went to the conference.

Have you seen this?

According to your NHS - anatomy is not always good guide to a child sex.

Guidance written by trans activists. Not based on clinical evidence.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2d7d6724-4f57-11ea-b112-75acb94b3417?wgu=270525_54264_15817583492242_a03333e757&wgexpiry=1589534349&utm_source=planit&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_content=22278

Remember, this is the most marginalised and oppressed group ever.

Yup - seen it. Does anyone know the timetable for the impact assessment process?

Wow, I've been really busy today and only just caught up with the Times coverage. Well done everyone!

Great article - and great quotes from Prof Stock.
The reporter's here if anyone wants to show appreciation: mobile.twitter.com/willhumphries_/status/1228590595960135680

I checked to see if SARI had commented on this, especially given the Harry Miller verdict which means they need to do some serious reflection.

Not a word - only this comment on the Kate Scottow trial:

@Araikes Thank you
@CherylMorgan

• dignified and courageous statement by the victim. Their advice should be widely publicised. Quote Tweet

Cheryl Morgan
@CherylMorgan
· Feb 14
FYI @Araikes twitter.com/flyinglawyer73/status/1228263128544272385

mobile.twitter.com/Araikes/status/1228671608421781504

The dignified and courageous victim is Hayden.

I would rather think about Kate's stolen dignity and her courage as she was taken from her family, locked up without sanpro while menstruating and forcibly separated from her breastfed baby.

Nothing about the NHS guidance or the Miller verdict - the only information the head of SARI (Bristol hate crime org that published the guidance) finds worth sharing is Hayden's statement.

CCG's trans guidance has now hit the Times and other national papers.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2d7d6724-4f57-11ea-b112-75acb94b3417?wgu=270525_54264_15817583492242_a03333e757&wgexpiry=1589534349&utm_source=planit&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_content=22278&wgu=270525_54264_15819607026933_56907805a0&wgexpiry=1589736702&utm_source=planit&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_content=22278

Sorry I don't have a share token.

CCG have now confirmed they are planning a meeting to discuss this when dates sorted.

Can anyone give advice on what we should check before attending? I know it's important to attend but as I've written in already am trying to work out what the meeting would achieve given they already know what womens' concerns are and couldn't care less about privacy, dignity and safeguarding. Anyone out there know what to check in advance?

1- written agenda/ aim of meeting?
2- attendees from CCG?
3-- given the CCG trans guidance states women who object to enforced mixed sex intimate spaces are transphobic and need educating, will we be accused of hate crime for raising concerns about teenage puberty blockers, enforced mixed sex intimate spaces for women to access care (inc rape victims) and enforced gender ideology that most people don't believe?
3- Do we need to ask the NHS whether attendance will be restricted, how they can guarantee privacy and security, and how they will keep attendees safe from threats etc?
I have been scared by the abuse and threats reported in the press that women get for attending meetings about women's spaces, including that woman who was beaten up in London ages ago (can't remember her name- sending best wishes if anyone knows her).

Hard to believe that as an ordinary mum I am having to consider these concerns to attend a meeting about NHS policy affecting teenage wellbeing and womens wards. The world is mad.

It really beggars belief the CCG decided forcing women into mixed sex intimate spaces in order to access care is acceptable. It goes beyond political expediency and stupidity to deliberately causing suffering to many women. I am struggling to understand how anyone at the CCG could have thought it a good idea.

Obvious solution? 3rd ward choice. Male wards. Female wards. Mixed sex wards if you opt out of single sex wards. No coercion. No trauma. (Female CCG staff and Labour leadership candidates can share with biological males if they all want to). Those who want single sex wards get them. Everyone's privacy, dignity and safety respected. Why is that so hard?

@thinEndoftheWedge
sorry missed you saw it first! Thanks!

What can I do to help, this is my area...

I would like to get involved, but no idea where to start

@totaleclipse84
date for reporting back with update and advising EIA end date is 6th March.
Women who have written in to complain about guidance contents
have been invited to a meeting some weeks after this.

Thank you

@changename5000
email in outlining your concerns to Bristol CCG customer services, attn of Board/ CEO...

I'm still gobsmacked (and a bit terrified) the CCG Inclusion team think it's preferable to give a few male transwomen access to womens wards, and exclude thousands of women instead. Female sex assault victim (20% of females according to rape crisis) , or experienced male domestic abuse, coercive control, violence, stalking? Female with religious beliefs, or don't feel comfortable sharing intimate spaces with males when you are vulnerable, ill and drugged up? Tough. The CCG knows who they want to give priority access to care on womens wards and its not women.

Interesting interview here with Clare Dimyon MBE
glinner.co.uk/interview-with-clare-dimyon-mbe/

stats rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/about-sexual-violence/statistics-sexual-violence/

Posting to remind myself to write to Lord Lucas about this! Anyone else up for it?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3837773-lord-lucas-seeking-further-input