Are you in Devon, Bristol, North Somerset or South Gloucestershire? Tell NHS your view on trans guidelines NOW

[anotherFOIrequester]

Happy New Year!

Starting a new thread with the aim of putting all the information in one place as I now have a clearer picture.

Old thread here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3755711-Help-FOI-request-trans-guidance-in-NHS-in-South-West?pg=1

The NHS CCG for Bristol, North Somerset and South Gloucestershire are adopting 'best practice' guidance for trans patients that you can read here:

bnssgccg-media.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/attachments/govbody_5Nov19_item6.4.pdf

There is no consideration of women or anyone else with protected characteristics, eg 'Providing education to other service users in a ward to prevent ignorant or transphobic comments is, if successful, a better solution than having to protect or isolate the trans service user'.
There has been no equality impact assessment, no risk assessment and no consultation with patients who don't identify as transgender.

The guidance is produced by Bristol charity SARI (Stand Against Racism and Inequality) but the meeting minutes below reveal that the lead writer is Cheryl Morgan, director of the Diversity Trust:

bnssgccg-media.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/attachments/govbody_3Dec19_item3.pdf

Morgan is a transwoman who attended a menopause event and claims the ability to breastfeed:

medium.com/@elsaegret/abusive-misogynist-activist-writes-nhs-policy-in-bristol-21dd02cc4c9c

Morgan has also used abusive language to women for many years:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-used-violent-transgender-activist-for-equality-training-x0mktgclw

SARI and the Diversity Trust have form:

medium.com/@elsaegret/stitch-up-bristol-fashion-f1eb298e28da

The guidance also features the logos of North Bristol NHS Trust and Devon Partnership NHS Trust. I have FOIs pending with both of them to establish what's happening there.

In response to women contacting the BNSSG CCG, they are now conducting an EIA, for what that's worth.

The good thing is we are disrupting the usual 'under-the-radar' proceedings before this is signed off - this is the time to contact them if you're in those areas, or if you're in Devon, or if you live elsewhere but use those NHS services.

Bristol/South Glos/North Som: [email protected]

North Bristol NHS Trust: [email protected]

Devon Partnership NHS Trust: [email protected]

@anotherFOIrequester Yes, I think I will. Watching what Devon says to you with interest.

Got FOI response from Devon:

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/673197/response/1595326/attach/2/Freedom%20of%20Information%20Response%2020%2021%20046.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

They refused to answer my question about male sex offenders on female wards, citing the cost exemption.

They also stated:
'Devon Partnership NHS Trust only commissions two services which is only accessible to female client and they are the perinatal services and Mother and Baby unit. In the case of our mixed sex wards, we conduct risk assessment including if they are a registered sex offender and take all precautions to the safety of all individuals involved'.

Yes - because the NHS completes CRB/sex register checks on all patients at hospital admission.

This would be laughable if it wasn’t such a derogation if care.

Indeed Thin.

And the refusal to answer the first q means that women in Devon are still in the same position - they have no guarantee that if they are admitted to a women's hospital ward there won't be a male rapist in the next bed.

Too costly to find that out - sorry women!

gosh, I've just checked out ms morgan's blog - she doesn't like women who disagree with her much! Several rather spicy articles.

Devon Partnership NHS Trust only commissions two services which is only accessible to female client and they are the perinatal services and Mother and Baby unit. In the case of our mixed sex wards, we conduct risk assessment including if they are a registered sex offender and take all precautions to the safety of all individuals involved

Ugh who wrote that?
1 - so their answer only relates to mixed-sex wards - presumably this doesn't include the female-only services they mentioned? Or are they saying these are mixed-sex but single-gender? It's really unclear.

2 - I would be extremely surprised if they were doing full CRB checks on all people using mixed-sex wards. Is this actually correct?

3 - "take all precautions to the safety of all individuals involved". What specifically are these precautions? If they don't think spending £450 to find out whether any sex offenders have been admitted, I am EXTREMELY unconvinced that "all" precautions have been taken no matter how costly.

I know pope, it feels harsh to point out the lack of care in grammar etc in current working circumstances but it doesn't give the impression of careful research, just a hasty 'go away'.

Completely agree with your points above. These are my two FOI questions:

Q1 How many biologically male (transgender women) sex offenders have been accommodated
on (biologically female) women's wards in the Trust's hospitals?
Q2 How many biologically male sex offenders have accessed services for females provided by
the Trust?

A to Q1 - refusal
A to Q2 - the waffle above

Do you feel like sending FOI asking for clarification based on your post above?

In Bristol, looks like the EQIA on trans toolkit will be published in Aug: bnssgccg-media.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/attachments/govbody_7Jul20_item4.pdf

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-53410019

Devon NHS Trust policy could put paedophile Marshall, who accessed child abuse images from a hospital bed, on a women's ward.

Does anyone know if Marshall was on a Lancs women's ward when doing this?

When doing what? This never happens!
Seriously, this is just appalling. Despite raising concerns that in theory EXACTLY THIS COULD HAPPEN I'm still surprised that EEXACTLY THIS DID HAPPEN.

Any way of finding out if it was on a women's ward?

I don't know how we could find out - don't know which hospital for a start. I suppose we could send a FOI to the NHS trusts in Lancashire which run the hospitals - of course although he lives in Lancs he may have been in hospital elsewhere.

I was thinking about this and I feel the only way we'd find out would be if a woman or man who'd shared a women's or men's ward with him saw the story and spoke out.

I find it unbearable that it's policy in Devon not to rule out putting him on a women's ward.

Devon responded to request for internal review.

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/convicted_male_sex_offenders_on?nocache=incoming-1609864#incoming-1609864

"As this is information the organisation does not routinely record and will involve checking in the region of 42000 records to manually extract that data the cost exemption would still apply to ensure that or wards that a female specific or have sections dedicated to females would exceed the 18 hour details in the cost exemption of section 12 of the act."

Yeah, why bother recording it? Nothing could ever go wrong with male sex offenders on a female ward... I will have to go back and look at the policy but I think it has something about compulsory recording on the risk management system so it might not even be true about not recording.

Thanks for following up.

Well this is interesting - the Bristol/N Som/S Glos EQIA on the trans guidance is supposed to be out this month, so I had a look at the governing body meeting agenda and got quite a surprise - this surely isn't normal?

bnssgccg-media.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/attachments/govbody_4Aug20_agendaAM.pdf

Hmm. That's a short agenda. Looks like as well as not being allowed to attend, we are not allowed to know what they are talking about either.

What!? It's a sentence saying the meeting will be available to the public and then a sentence asking that it not be made available to the public.

Saying nothing yet still managing to be contradictory.

Apt.

Something is definitely 'up'.

Had a bit of time this morning to look into this again.

Looks the whole Aug meeting was closed to public so they could discuss the EQIA. It's supposed to be presented in an open meeting when it's finished: bnssgccg-media.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/attachments/govbody_4Aug20_item4.pdf

Hmm.

From July 2020, still pushing ahead with paying Stonewall to lie to them about the law:

'Our programme for the 2019/20yearincluded establishing three diversity-related networks (affinity groups) –LGBT+, BAME and an Allies Network. The staff networks have delivered workshops, hosted distinguished external guest speakers and facilitated panel debates.The Proud Network (LGBT+) is an integral part of working towards Stonewall Accreditation.'

bnssgccg-media.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/attachments/bnssgccg_annual_report_2019-2020.pdf

And in their annual report the dishonesty and hypocrisy is astonishing - they state (p 58) :
'Patient dignity and privacy-
We are committed to eliminating mixed sex accommodation'

They 'forget' to mention that this year the governing body voted to allow adult males to self ID onto womens wards, thus making all wards mixed sex, and that the governing body sees nothing wrong with their threats to 're educate' any woman who objects.

I am just so fucking angry today. So sick of bullies (yes I have just been reading about Heather Peto) and their idiot enablers.
Thinking about all the hours women with better things to do have had to put in just to bring the situation back to zero - to reality - and we still haven't got there. While the damage is still being done and will blight women's and girls lives for years to come.

FOIRequester - Are you one of the members of the public who reminded this group that an Equality Impact Assessment was required? If so, well done! The action log suggests that without members of the public, they would not have taken this step....

Following contact from members of the public regarding the toolkit, the CCG will undertake an Equality Impact Assessment on the guidance and present this to the Governing Body once completed.

Yes sultana I wrote to them before Xmas.
And I would encourage local women to get in touch if you haven't already!
Imo they should just throw it out. If they do an honest EIA that's where it'll take them. But these days that's a big 'if'.

I’ve written as this is my area but With a TW on the Board I’m not optimistic :/

Who's that Kit?

Our local hospital (in South West area) says that transgender patients can choose their preferred ward, be offered a side room but will not be put in such a room without their consent and if anyone objects and doesn’t comply with a ‘required standard of behaviour’ they can be removed from the site.
So where does that leave the hospital if the patient needs to be put in a side room for medical reasons (ie an infectious disease) - will they get sued for breach of policy? What happens to the woman in hospital (presumably because she is ill or post operative) that objects? Do they gather up your drip and monitoring equipment and hoik you out? I will be writing this morning.

Kit you don't have any other information? I think that's quite an assumption otherwise.