Are you in Devon, Bristol, North Somerset or South Gloucestershire? Tell NHS your view on trans guidelines NOW

[anotherFOIrequester]

Happy New Year!

Starting a new thread with the aim of putting all the information in one place as I now have a clearer picture.

Old thread here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3755711-Help-FOI-request-trans-guidance-in-NHS-in-South-West?pg=1

The NHS CCG for Bristol, North Somerset and South Gloucestershire are adopting 'best practice' guidance for trans patients that you can read here:

bnssgccg-media.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/attachments/govbody_5Nov19_item6.4.pdf

There is no consideration of women or anyone else with protected characteristics, eg 'Providing education to other service users in a ward to prevent ignorant or transphobic comments is, if successful, a better solution than having to protect or isolate the trans service user'.
There has been no equality impact assessment, no risk assessment and no consultation with patients who don't identify as transgender.

The guidance is produced by Bristol charity SARI (Stand Against Racism and Inequality) but the meeting minutes below reveal that the lead writer is Cheryl Morgan, director of the Diversity Trust:

bnssgccg-media.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/attachments/govbody_3Dec19_item3.pdf

Morgan is a transwoman who attended a menopause event and claims the ability to breastfeed:

medium.com/@elsaegret/abusive-misogynist-activist-writes-nhs-policy-in-bristol-21dd02cc4c9c

Morgan has also used abusive language to women for many years:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-used-violent-transgender-activist-for-equality-training-x0mktgclw

SARI and the Diversity Trust have form:

medium.com/@elsaegret/stitch-up-bristol-fashion-f1eb298e28da

The guidance also features the logos of North Bristol NHS Trust and Devon Partnership NHS Trust. I have FOIs pending with both of them to establish what's happening there.

In response to women contacting the BNSSG CCG, they are now conducting an EIA, for what that's worth.

The good thing is we are disrupting the usual 'under-the-radar' proceedings before this is signed off - this is the time to contact them if you're in those areas, or if you're in Devon, or if you live elsewhere but use those NHS services.

Bristol/South Glos/North Som: [email protected]

North Bristol NHS Trust: [email protected]

Devon Partnership NHS Trust: [email protected]

brilliant news!! Saving £2,500 + VAT a year (how many other hospitals/schools/councils/local authorities/police forces etc are paying this in the UK?)

The absolute mess created by their Stonewall driven policies and false information about the law remain for now but it is a start - hooray!! thanks FOI that has cheered me up.

Good news. Well done.

The first of many??

Being a stonewall champion is incompatible with the NHS constitution.

• their campaigning for the medicalising of children who present with gender dysphoria - unevidenced/experimental - leads to life long sterility/ loss of sexual function. They think children can consent to this. They cannot.

• removal of the language of women from healhcare

• trans policies which openly discriminate against women

• lobbying for the removal of single sex spaces - which the NHS have for the safety, privacy, dignity (I know there is the loophole - but they want to get rid of the lot).

We should all contact our local Trusts and demand removal from the scheme - if a member.

Wow that's great news, congratulations south west feminists! Hopefully the current legal feminist action to FOI public bodies about Stonewall membership might bear more fruit like this

2.5k to Stonewall + 7k on unworkable trans guidance = almost 10k public money.

For that you get: hundreds of angry and scared women, negative press coverage, and a ton of extra work.

Bargain!

Will start a new thread on this to see if any other bodies/orgs have dropped Stonewall - and inspire women to take action!

twitter.com/intercomtrust/status/1367167281487368196?s=21
The Intercom Trust is carrying out a survey for NHS in the South West on improving care for “gender diverse” people, but unsurprisingly fails to define “gender diverse”.

Well done to all involved

@totaleclipse84

twitter.com/intercomtrust/status/1367167281487368196?s=21 The Intercom Trust is carrying out a survey for NHS in the South West on improving care for “gender diverse” people, but unsurprisingly fails to define “gender diverse”.

Fantastic, thank you for linking to this. I've just completed this as a "gender diverse" person!

And told them that sex is not "assigned at birth".

Oh the irony - I saw someone on Twitter worrying that the 'transphobes' would complete it. Ignoring the fact that you need to identify as transgender or gender diverse to complete the survey!

Unless they are claiming that it's possible to say you are trans yet simultaneously not be trans? Which is the sort of claim that gets called 'transphobic'.

To identify as trans is to be trans.

So, there are specific needs that are unique to trans people and they are happy to be the only ones consulted (even if the treatments suggested are refused to other groups and all will come from the general public pursue) but they do not wish to see the need for their unique spaces, refuges, prison wings, etc. Why?

Has anyone seen this?

www.bristol247.com/opinion/your-say/im-proud-that-bristols-lgbtq-community-have-for-generations-enriched-the-life-of-our-city/

There is currently another thread about it so I won't go into detail, but this part caught my eye:
"We want to make sure our health services in particular are inclusive and meet the needs of trans people across Bristol"

I intend to write to Marvin to clarify he will support policies within the NHS that complies with the law around single sex spaces and protects the safety, privacy and dignity of women.

@MujeresLibres
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but over the last few months both hospital trusts in Bristol have confirmed they have ended single sex ward provision for women in their hospitals, except for maternity and gynae wards, and follow 'Annex B'. I have seen some of the correspondence about this (but not all. The Trusts continue to refer to sex when they mean gender to avoid complaints).

If you need care at either of these Trusts and don't get a single room, you must accept annex B of the 'Delivering same sex accommodation policy'

ie accept being undressed, getting bedpans, sleeping etc next to male strangers , including male cross dressers and fetishists, whose 'genitals and appearance do not match their gender identity and may be mistaken for men' (check policy for exact wording!).

The Trusts have been told the policy is degrading and hostile to women and prevents women who need privacy and dignity, or don't believe people can change sex when they change clothing choices, from accessing care.

They have no guidance for measuring (or including) women who cannot consent, no plans to introduce any, and many women- often the most vulnerable and unable to speak up- are thus excluded from NHS care- including rape victims, religious believers and many other women, including elderly people.

This has been raised by at least 1 MP with the Health Minister who I understand has confirmed this is not UK law, but in Bristol purely the choice the Trusts have made (I have not seen the Health ministers response).

In addition North Bristol lets staff self ID their sex through passports, including for intimate procedures and care- if patients don't consent they are 'free to refuse care.'

I am advised the only way forward will be legal action (if any of the sick women unable to access care are strong enough to face this) and I am amazed the press hasn't picked this up (are there any journalists on mumsnet?).

You may wish to write to your MP ( it won't be a surprise to them) to raise with the Heath secretary again and make a formal complaint to the Trust concerned about vulnerable women being required to share communal areas with male bodied strangers in order to access care, and how women who don't consent can access NHS care.

If you are a Bristol woman who needs a female only ward, you will need to ask your GP for advice if you need inpatient hospital care- this may mean referring you out of area to a Trust that does not interpret the guidance in this way.

This is awful.

That is absolutely (un)believable. Ffs! Bumping in the hope that Bristol women will see the thread, or even better a journalist

@watermonster thanks, I will write some letters

Why on earth hasn't the Government done something about this? Are they waiting for the scales to balance in their favour? If they take a look at the comments under Mathew Parris's article in the Times today they will be in no doubt as to how the pendulum is starting to swing.

So frustrating but I should think the Baroness has something to say about this.

I think this has gone way beyond anything that can be remediated through the writing of letters. Many hospital trusts, as well as the various commissioning groups, health and medical regulatory bodies and the various med ed colleges, have all been stonewalled.

I can't envisage this ending in anyway except through the courts. Either Annex B needs to go to judicial review, or an individual trust's policy needs to be challenged through the courts.

Many of the policies are so obscene - some even instruct the placing of sex offenders on to female wards. One of these, Devon Partnership mental health trust, says that it is OK to put known sex offenders on the same ward as mentally ill women ( as a pathetic attmept at mitigation, it suggests using anti-libinal medication) and suggests that any woman who objects to the presence of a sex-offending male on a female ward, might be placed in seclusion or long-term segregation. Just to be clear, it is the objecting woman who needs to go into seclusion, not the sex offending male.

For info, seclusion is the modern equivalent of the padded cell.

@RedDeerRunning

I think this has gone way beyond anything that can be remediated through the writing of letters. Many hospital trusts, as well as the various commissioning groups, health and medical regulatory bodies and the various med ed colleges, have all been stonewalled.

I can't envisage this ending in anyway except through the courts. Either Annex B needs to go to judicial review, or an individual trust's policy needs to be challenged through the courts.

Many of the policies are so obscene - some even instruct the placing of sex offenders on to female wards. One of these, Devon Partnership mental health trust, says that it is OK to put known sex offenders on the same ward as mentally ill women ( as a pathetic attmept at mitigation, it suggests using anti-libinal medication) and suggests that any woman who objects to the presence of a sex-offending male on a female ward, might be placed in seclusion or long-term segregation. Just to be clear, it is the objecting woman who needs to go into seclusion, not the sex offending male.

For info, seclusion is the modern equivalent of the padded cell.

I tend to agree. Sadly I think it could take something like a sexual assault/rape in order for this to reach the courts.

One such assault is one too many.

Very sad.

@Leafstamp, unfortunately it is not uncommon for women on psychiatric wards to get sexually assaulted. It rarely, if ever, reaches the courts.

[quote RedDeerRunning]@Leafstamp, unfortunately it is not uncommon for women on psychiatric wards to get sexually assaulted. It rarely, if ever, reaches the courts.[/quote]
That’s awful. Please pardon my ignorance but why is that? Presumably lack of evidence?

@Leafstamp there was a CQC report from about 2 years ago that details the lack of safety on psychiatric wards. There are a combination of factors that lead to assault (mainly mixed wards imo) but because the patients are ill, they are often not in a position to give evidence and lack capacity to do so. Safeguarding procedures do take place, but there is rarely a conviction

Thanks RedDeer

Interestingly, Bristol and North Somerset CCG are not current Stonewall members:

bnssgccg.nhs.uk/library/foisr-02032021-response-stonewall-diversity-championworkplace-equality-index/

Although, have not updated their website to reflect this :

bnssgccg.nhs.uk/about-us/equality-diversity-and-inclusion/proud-be-stonewall-diversity-champion/

Want to add this excellent article by former NHS chief exec Kate Grimes here. She covers everything we have raised:

www.hsj.co.uk/workforce/working-with-stonewall-is-no-longer-compatible-with-nhs-values/7030259.article

Also - DEVON Partnership NHS Trust - they have gone very quiet. They said they were going to review their hideous policy which allows male rapists on female wards and consult the public, but I haven't heard a peep for months. Anyone heard anything?

BRISTOL/N SOM/S GLOS trans toolkit - someone filed an FOI asking for emails between the CCG and SARI. Hello if you're here! And thanks! The emails refer to attachments etc which are not included in the CCG's FOI response, I will ask for them or if you're here could you follow up?

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/stonewall_and_diversity_trust_tr

exexpat has created this thread which updates on this issue:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4295007-Bristol-clinical-commissioning-group-refuses-to-endorse-trans-toolkit-after-public-consultation