Are you in Devon, Bristol, North Somerset or South Gloucestershire? Tell NHS your view on trans guidelines NOW

[anotherFOIrequester]

Happy New Year!

Starting a new thread with the aim of putting all the information in one place as I now have a clearer picture.

Old thread here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3755711-Help-FOI-request-trans-guidance-in-NHS-in-South-West?pg=1

The NHS CCG for Bristol, North Somerset and South Gloucestershire are adopting 'best practice' guidance for trans patients that you can read here:

bnssgccg-media.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/attachments/govbody_5Nov19_item6.4.pdf

There is no consideration of women or anyone else with protected characteristics, eg 'Providing education to other service users in a ward to prevent ignorant or transphobic comments is, if successful, a better solution than having to protect or isolate the trans service user'.
There has been no equality impact assessment, no risk assessment and no consultation with patients who don't identify as transgender.

The guidance is produced by Bristol charity SARI (Stand Against Racism and Inequality) but the meeting minutes below reveal that the lead writer is Cheryl Morgan, director of the Diversity Trust:

bnssgccg-media.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/attachments/govbody_3Dec19_item3.pdf

Morgan is a transwoman who attended a menopause event and claims the ability to breastfeed:

medium.com/@elsaegret/abusive-misogynist-activist-writes-nhs-policy-in-bristol-21dd02cc4c9c

Morgan has also used abusive language to women for many years:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-used-violent-transgender-activist-for-equality-training-x0mktgclw

SARI and the Diversity Trust have form:

medium.com/@elsaegret/stitch-up-bristol-fashion-f1eb298e28da

The guidance also features the logos of North Bristol NHS Trust and Devon Partnership NHS Trust. I have FOIs pending with both of them to establish what's happening there.

In response to women contacting the BNSSG CCG, they are now conducting an EIA, for what that's worth.

The good thing is we are disrupting the usual 'under-the-radar' proceedings before this is signed off - this is the time to contact them if you're in those areas, or if you're in Devon, or if you live elsewhere but use those NHS services.

Bristol/South Glos/North Som: [email protected]

North Bristol NHS Trust: [email protected]

Devon Partnership NHS Trust: [email protected]

Super thank you!

That was to foi for the Devon group btw :-))

Oops sorry me again - have you got any more details of the situation for the nurse (without being outing btw) - foi sounds like they are setting up frontline staff for a nightmare!!

You're welcome!

From memory - basically none of this is hypothetical, it's already happening that males are on women's wards and overworked nurses don't feel able to challenge.

But no-one is saying biological sex doesn't exist remember?

On the bright side, we now have official 'evidence' to pull out to completely disprove this, and then some. I will be circulating this. It will be read.

Interested about the exchange above regarding female only womens groups. Anyone know of female only Bristol based women's groups? Or is there a national list anywhere? Would Fair Play for Women know do you think?

On the mixed sex wards issue, my friend was rang at home by her NHS consultant a few weeks ago (which I thought very impressive of him during lockdown) as he is so concerned she has refused urgent surgery. But she can't explain such personal reasons to him so agreed to talk to female Privacy and Dignity manager- who stated (and confirmed in writing) no female patient would ever have to be undressed or asleep with males. But this conflicts with the hospital's written Single Sex/ Inclusion policy stating males can choose to go on women's wards without the women patients consent so she is still too scared to go in.

It's hugely worrying- These NHS policies make the NHS complicit in the abuse and gaslighting of women, and there are a number of women self excluding from care as a result.

@Watermonster there is this group, they organise some interesting talks but nothing going on during these pandemic times.

www.womentalkback.org/about-wtb

@MujeresLibres thank you.

So the CCG hasve now published the Dec minutes ready for this month's meeting. The CCG are back to recommending the trans guidance even though the AIA confirmed it has a negative impact on women as a sex,age etc. They have made NO mitigation for the issues which negatively affect women at all, and continue to recommend males self ID onto women's wards etc . What shocks me is the dishonesty from the member of staff concerned stating that have mitigated and the board's failure to challenge this.... Here's an excerpt- the full amendments are in the minutes and further back in the thread.

6.1
The EIA highlighted potential negative impacts on
the basis of sex, age, disability and faith/religion.
AM welcomed the level of detail included in the EIA and asked for
assurance that with the mitigations the areas of negative impact
would be neutral. MS confirmed that the impacts identified would
be mitigated by the edits to the toolkit and would bring the
impacts back to neutral
bnssgccg-media.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/attachments/govbody_5Jan21_item3.pdf

So they’ve contradicted themselves on the EIA - one mentions that there are only neutral and positive impacts on the pcs and another asks how the negative impacts listed will be mitigated. I’m sure (can’t look properly atm) that it showed mostly negative/neutral impacts on most pcs except obviously GR. so are they looking at the wrong thing?

I can’t believe that they have sat in that meeting having looked at the comments they will have had on this and are still claiming no impact on most pcs and do we know what changes are being made to the toolkit?

A number of edits to the toolkit were recommended to mitigate against the identified impacts. MS outlined these as:
 Removal of the references to hormone blockers in young people pending the outcome of the national review
 Clarifying that the treatment pathway section was illustrative rather than a definitive treatment pathway
 Including acknowledgement of sex as a protected characteristic in the crisis management section
 Removal of the reference to suicidality in young people and improvements to the use of statistics

There is one more to include more case studies to ‘bring the transgender experience to life’ or something.

So they did acknowledge the impact on pcs of sex, disability and religious beliefs (my bad, I’m too furious) but then the points mentioned above appear to be the proposed edits to ‘mitigate’ the impact.

I’m not sure how those edits are going to make any difference to a female patient forced to share a ward with a male person..

Is there any way of challenging this, do you know?

I am advised the best way is to write in and keep making complaints- doesn't have to take long.
email [email protected]
attn Chief Executive or Dr J Hayes (chair) .
Formal complaint as then CEO has to answer (doesn't have to be very formal) to CCG pointing out staff member lied to board- there are no remedial actions for women/ religious believers.
may want to ask:
Ask for safeguarding assessment on forcing drugged up undressed women into mixed sex wards without knowledge/ consent.
As hospitals treat CCG guidance as if it is policy ask them how they will ensure women and religious believers dont self exclude and can access hospital care as CCG guidance excludes women.
As it appears their role as stonewall champions has affected their ability to consider the needs of female patients, and mitigate negative impact on women/ religious believers (as Stonewall campaign against single sex spaces,and privacy for women from males) ask them how they are tackling staff ideological capture.
Ask why male cross dressers with sexual fetish can access womens wards (as guidance supports self ID) , yet no guidance is given for eg female victims of male abuse, how sartorial choices change someone's sex, and how they will protect female patients from having to take part in male fetishes and delusions.
Ask them why trans people are given the choice between same sex and mixed sex wards but not women or religious believers, which are 2 other protected characteristics. On what legal basis are they prioritising trans? How is this not sex discrimination? (Instituitional discrimation against women and religious believers).
Public sector equality duty requires them to only have policies which promote good relationships between those with different protected characteristics.. Their failure to protect women does the opposite.

Contact local hospitals. Ask for single sex policy. Ask them what happens to women who do not consent to mixed sex wards and how they get consent from women. Ask what policy changes they will introduce so women and religious believers can access care.Short formal complaint about policies which exclude women and religious believers.Institutional capture by Stonewall...

I am embarrassed to say I used to support Stonewall.

Don't be embarrassed watermonster I was a big supporter too. I'm not gay but I was very involved with the gay community in my area when Aids reared it's ugly head. I have championed for years and I'm not embarrassed, the organisation has changed massively

Thanks @watermonster

that is very helpful thanks Watermonster. I also have the following:

re. the policy which is now inaccessible from the website 'due to review' but I copied it onto this document (it seems to be restricted from sharing on Word). I zipped through it quickly and noted the worst sections.

4.1.3 Includes people who do not identify with the sex or gender they were born on a part-time basis within the definition of 'transgender' in their 'Definitions' list.

p6.4 They need to replace gender with Sex as the actual protected characteristic.

p7.2 They observe that the term 'transsexual' used in the EA 2010 is 'outdated' and we now use 'trans' or 'transgender'. They can't just change the wording of a law for fashion.

p7.2.2 Intersex is mentioned several times (also in the Definitions) in a way that links it with trans despite people with DSDs asking many times to not have their conditions conflated with trans.

p7.4 holding information on Gender not on Sex may breach GDPR

p7.5 Staff disclosing a patient's trans status may be subject to prosecution so how can they possibly even have a conversation with another patient concerned about the presence of an opposite sex person in the single sex ward.

p7.6.1 + 2 conflating 'intersex' with trans and non-binary again. Non binary is not recognised in law. The recent Employment Tribunal did not set a precedent.

9.1 Intersex or DSDs is a medical condition, not something that a person can 'identify as'. This is demonstrating a total lack of understanding of DSDs which, for a medical setting is concerning.

10.1 Allowing patients to be admitted to an 'inpatient bedroom' (ward?) based on the gender they identify as. This is totally not in line with the EA 2010 Explanatory Notes Pt 7 para 27 - hospital wards specifically allow discrimination based on sex to exclude male people from a single sex female ward. www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/20/7

114. Allowing a person to completely erase their medical records seems reckless for the future healthcare - they may not understand the implications of this.

12.2 This means wards are no longer single sex and will affect all other occupants. This is not reflected in the EIA.

12.5 The decision to admit to a 'gender' specific ward (should be sex) should absolutely be based on the sex of the patient. Anything other than this is not in accordance with the EA 2010 notes above.

12.7 The EA 2010 is very specific (see notes above). It is proportionate to exclude people based on their sex in all single sex hospital wards - it is not to be assessed on a 'case by case basis' ie. per patient as this implies.

12.8 This could put staff in an impossible position - not being able to explain why Uncle Derek is on the women's ward. Do they really want to make things more difficult for NHS staff??

14.1 What about the risk to women with a male on the ward? (include in EIA)

14.3 Are busy staff going to have time to arbitrate in this delicate situation? Especially if they can't disclose a person's trans status.

14.5 This is inhuman! Basing the risk assessment of a sexual offender being admitted into a single sex ward on whether they are prescribed anti-libidinous medication is totally unrealistic and is totally unsuitable for all involved - please delete immediately.

15.1 Should be based on Sex
15.2 It is lawful in all cases

17 Are hair removal services offered to all patients that require it?

18 Define transphobic so it does not include people that know humans can't change sex and women that object to males in single sex spaces.

23 Again, mis-states the protected characteristics in the EA 2010 - SEX!!

App 1 please read the actual EA 2010, not the Stonewall version.
App 2 Mermaids is a very questionable resource to be passing on.

there's a bazillion other things wrong with it but these were the ones that jumped out.

for some reason I can't attach the policy document these points refer to. I may be able to find another way if anyone needs.

You're talking about the Devon one right garden?
Here you go:

docs.google.com/document/d/1oDtkH6d7gK8c3DqoiOtMga0m4Bnvntm8qpaZPGAaTLE/edit?usp=sharing

twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1348242705256738817

It 's only illegal to point it out if you have got the info that they have a grc

That’s a relief- however the nhs policies seem to go further than that and explicitly ban disclosing unless essential for medical reasons. It also threatens prosecution and specifically mentions large fines without any qualifying info re the actual law which I find quite shocking. It is likely to have a net effect of staff been too scared to say anything particularly as they won’t have the backing of their employer or union (in many cases) if they get a complaint against them.

I think I mentioned on another thread that the RCN may not have consulted their members before making their pro self id submission - I wonder how they feel about these overt threats?

Thanks foi I have sent you a message.

Good news!

Bristol/Som/Glos CCG have left the Stonewall Diversity Champions scheme:

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/723591/response/1725817/attach/5/FOI%202021213%20Final%20Response.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

£3000 quid for what? How many decent masks for staff would that buy?