"Mumsnet statement on moderation with regard to..."

[RaveOnThisCrazyFeeling]

@MNHQ, I am wondering if the statement sticky at the top of this section needs a new, more accurate, less misleading title.

A large part of the difficulty that women encounter in discussing these issues comes from the framing of the issue as being about 'trans rights'. This implies that feminists are arguing against the equal rights of trans people, which of course isn't the case at all. It also disregards the fact that women and their rights have any stake in the issues being discussed - it makes it all about trans people having rights, or not having rights, and to the casual, uninformed observer that reinforces the TRA narrative that women are a privileged class denying the rights of oppressed transwomen.

In fact, women are the historically and systemically disadvantaged sex class, and so ha e a very large stake in legal and social understanding of sex and gender.

Might you give some consideration to changing the thread name (and OP as appropriate) to "...discussion of sex and gender" rather than "discussion of trans rights"?

Agree.

As it stands it does seem to imply that TW are deserving of more rights than natal women. Which is nonsense, of course

Thanks for the reply AnotherBecky

I would also support a review and reframing of the moderation policy. Thanks for raising this OP.

I agree completely. We are concerned with protecting womens rights and safeguarding children. the policing of language makes that harder to do. Protecting womens rights does not mean I wish trans people harm.

I agree. It’s getting out of hand how controlled our language is on a feminism board ffs.

I've always thought the guidelines were biased in order to minimise complaints rather that allow fair discussion.
Agree entirely with you OP.

Another adding my voice to the wise women of FWR, @mnhq - feminism and the safeguarding of children and young people are the prime motivation for me and so many other FWR contributors and lurkers, be kind has to take second place to be safe We cannot be expected to put the desires of our oppressors above the needs of our children and ourselves.

I'm wholeheartedly in support of this proposal. I also agree with Lang that the special restrictions that apply solely to FWR should also go.

It's a discussion forum. The same rules should apply across all boards.

Thanks Becky

Agree with Lang.

Thanks RaveOn. This has always jarred with me too, but it didn’t even cross my mind that I might try and do something about it. What is wrong with me?!

Absolutely. The concerns and safety of Women and Girls should be front and centre on a feminism board not the feelings of men.

We should be able to speak freely about the issues affecting us without have special rules applied to us that dont apply to the rest of the forums here.

The Convention on the elimination of all forms of discrimination against women - the international bill of rights for women - defines 'discrimination against women' as 'any distinction, exclusion or restriction made on the basis of sex which has the effect or purpose of impairing or nullifying the recognition, enjoyment or exercise by women, irrespective of their marital status, on a basis of equality of men and women, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural, civil or any other field'. And yet MN routinely polices women's words and violates our freedom of expression - a human right - by denying us the language we need to defend and assert our rights and to challenge the discrimination we experience because of our sex.

Could not agree more, new year and new start MNHQ

Totally agree. A neutral stance is needed on this issue. Sex is a protected characteristic too.

Thanks for bringing this out in the open OP.

I'm just kicking myself that I never noticed.
Now I'm wondering what else I'm not seeing.

I after and I also agree with Lang.

Just lying here, imagining a 2020 surprise when I click on and see the pinned post now read 'Mumsnet is proud to support women talking freely about women's rights, and about the safeguarding of children, teens and young people.'

Absolutely so. I second the proposal someone (sorry, I've forgotten who it was) made upthread to call it "...discussion of sex and gender identity". And whatever MNHQ put in the guidance, I'd love it to (preferably) consist entirely of the above, but if they feel the need for additional rules, at least start with it as the guiding principle.

I'm also in the "I can't believe it's taken so long for someone to point this out" camp, and like WrathoFaeKlop I wonder what else I'm missing because it's become part of the wallpaper.

A thoughtful and well argued thread. The different rules and treatment of posters on this board compared to the others are unacceptable. Please think again MNHQ.

All of the fucking above.

Another in agreement. This makes much more sense. Despite what Twitter seems to make people believe this is about women’s rights. As you’d expect on the feminism boards.

Agree.

Agree. Women silencing ourselves is hardly feminist.

Excellent point, well made OP - another one here who can't believe I didn't spot this myself. We centre women, we discuss Women’s rights, we care about women's issues. I'm really concerned to see comments deleted from this thread - obviously I didn't see them but I struggle to believe- given the rest of the thread - that they were in any way inappropriate. Yes @mumsnet please do discuss this and let's have a discussion about, by and for women.

I am Spartacus anyone?

2. We don’t allow posts which are derogatory or aggressive towards trans people. We believe there are ways to express both opinion and facts without crossing this line.

Quite.
But what about derogatory or aggressive posts about women?

Trans-identifying people have full human rights already, as they and every human being should have. Their current demands are for privileges that override women’s basic rights, eg to privacy in intimate situations, and undermine child protection. These are not anyone’s rights.

I agree with RaveOn.