"Mumsnet statement on moderation with regard to..."

[RaveOnThisCrazyFeeling]

@MNHQ, I am wondering if the statement sticky at the top of this section needs a new, more accurate, less misleading title.

A large part of the difficulty that women encounter in discussing these issues comes from the framing of the issue as being about 'trans rights'. This implies that feminists are arguing against the equal rights of trans people, which of course isn't the case at all. It also disregards the fact that women and their rights have any stake in the issues being discussed - it makes it all about trans people having rights, or not having rights, and to the casual, uninformed observer that reinforces the TRA narrative that women are a privileged class denying the rights of oppressed transwomen.

In fact, women are the historically and systemically disadvantaged sex class, and so ha e a very large stake in legal and social understanding of sex and gender.

Might you give some consideration to changing the thread name (and OP as appropriate) to "...discussion of sex and gender" rather than "discussion of trans rights"?

Those who who deny that a class has interests in common usually are seeking to divide that class

Indeed.

As an aside it is quite common for specific quotes to be applied more widely as people begin to recognize behavior patterns and social cycles.
This Carnegie quote for example: "Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still", is timely and instructive.

A man who pleaded guilty to child pornography has written that statement about looking to who we can't criticise etc

To be accurate , a man who is a neo- Nazi, Holocaust denier, white separatist and who pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography wrote it.

The name of this logical fallacy is: "Genetic fallacy. The genetic fallacy (also known as the fallacy of origins or fallacy of virtue) is a fallacy of irrelevance that is based solely on someone's or something's history, origin, or source rather than its current meaning or context."

3. Sweeping negative generalisations about any group, including trans people and gender-critical feminists, won’t be tolerated.

@MNHQ I would like to politely request a further specific edit to this point, along the lines of "this includes slurring the FWR board, or any user/s as "transphobic" without proof. Doing so will result in a strike deletion"

Because the modus operandi of so, so many people is to simply drop the high profile t-bomb and run away, in the hope people will take theit word for it. I can't go and announce a fellow MNer is racist, for example, unless I have grounds. This is is the same.

Or any users as transphobic without proof doing so will result in strike/deletion
That'd apply one to poster upthread who bizarrely outright called me it too...

... on another , now deleted, Bunbury thread.

The Bunbury part 4 thread is still there

Buzz wrote "this includes slurring the FWR board, or any user/s as "transphobic" without proof.

For me the ‘without proof’ bit is important.

For me the ‘without proof’ bit is important

So where's the proof for the one that was to me when I asked about what I, myself, should be wearing as a 40 year old woman?
Going by the rules proposed it'd have been an instant strike'deletion for you (think it was you, apologies if not, long thread)

Just wanted to say I agree with OP and thanks MNHQ for changing the sticky.

Justine I would like to thank you for always listening and for sticking your neck out. I want to also assure you (and the twitchy advertisers behind the revenue stream) that I will favour advertisers who support women and girls on their sex based rights and boycott those who refuse to. By boycott I do mean not only refusing to spend there but also telling everyone I know they should not shop there and why. I think it is safe to assume that there is a lot of spending power here on MN and we have made it very clear on FWR that we will spend according to what we feel is best for women! LGB Alliance are just part of the gathering public movement to make all of the information accessible and do away with silence via fear of offending. Perhaps a more reassuring way to soothe any concerns is to point out the financial benefit of speaking up?

Sorry if this was mentioned earlier, I have not read the entire thread ...

on another , now deleted, Bunbury thread

The Bunbury part 4 thread is still there

Oh how disingenuous.

Not that thread. Thread 3. Link below. I particularly remember the posts accusing another poster out of the blue for being transphobic. It was basically a lie.

I expect this post will get deleted as well but so be it. You have been making similar spurious accusations recently on other threads.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3659121-Bunbury-s-Public-Service-Announcement-3

I expect this post will get deleted as well but so be it. You have been making similar spurious accusations recently on other threads.

You appear to be violating the request made by MNHQ in the link you pasted so I think you are right that you will be deleted if reported.

You appear to be violating the request made by MNHQ in the link you pasted so I think you are right that you will be deleted if reported

What rule? Genuine question. They've posted a link to a deletion message that's there for all to see?
So what is the poster violating according to you?

First you read the linked deletion statement that contains the request: We're sure there will be a Bunbury 4 around soon, but we'd be grateful if we could draw a line under the issues raised in this thread if there's to be a new one.
That is when it will come to you that a request is not a rule and understanding will dawn.

Sorry, but what I'm not sure what are you actually talking about?
The poster linked to a deletion message as you misunderstood what post they were referring to.
Your last sentence makes no sense in reference to anything anyone was saying.

It still comes down to the reality that women are women, and men are men. This is basic reality. Basic human biology. Unalterable.

Justine I would like to thank you for always listening and for sticking your neck out.

I cosign this. There aren't many sites this big where the boss directly engages with commenters, but it's very much in keeping with the fact that this is a site created by and for women. I may wish that Justine would go a lot further, and get frustrated sometimes when she doesn't, but ultimately everyone other than the trolls values what we have here.

Unfortunately ‘lies’ are too difficult to moderate, especially as it would just take the addition of one or two words to make them not a lie

This is a tactic used by a number of ‘disrupters’ (as I've heard people described) on the feminist board...and to be fair on a lot of other boards And especially on fast moving or ‘prime deletion threads’

Plus mumsnet would have to close down

Oh no ignore my last comment, I'm getting mixed up.

It still comes down to the reality that women are women, and men are men. This is basic reality. Basic human biology. Unalterable.

This, with bells on.