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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

"Mumsnet statement on moderation with regard to..."

771 replies

RaveOnThisCrazyFeeling · 30/12/2019 17:31

@MNHQ, I am wondering if the statement sticky at the top of this section needs a new, more accurate, less misleading title.

A large part of the difficulty that women encounter in discussing these issues comes from the framing of the issue as being about 'trans rights'. This implies that feminists are arguing against the equal rights of trans people, which of course isn't the case at all. It also disregards the fact that women and their rights have any stake in the issues being discussed - it makes it all about trans people having rights, or not having rights, and to the casual, uninformed observer that reinforces the TRA narrative that women are a privileged class denying the rights of oppressed transwomen.

In fact, women are the historically and systemically disadvantaged sex class, and so ha e a very large stake in legal and social understanding of sex and gender.

Might you give some consideration to changing the thread name (and OP as appropriate) to "...discussion of sex and gender" rather than "discussion of trans rights"?

OP posts:
Voice0fReason · 30/12/2019 21:07

I think that's an excellent point.
This board is about women's rights

theflushedzebra · 30/12/2019 21:23

Agree. "Discussion of sex and gender" is about right - none of us are talking about trans rights - we're discussing women's rights.

stillathing · 30/12/2019 21:45

Agree. I think that in referencing "trans rights" in the pinned post right under "feminism chat" MNHQ become complicit in perpetuating the message that rights for trans people and rights for women are intrinsically opposed to each other. I am not sure why MNHQ would want to support this idea. It only gives ammo to those who seek to shut the site down, whilst causing fear and anxiety to both women and those who suffer with dysphoria.

GiloulovesLaure · 30/12/2019 21:57

Yes, "sex and gender"; does what it says on the tin.

ApplesinmyPocket · 30/12/2019 22:03

Very good point. It's women's rights which are under threat and which are the focus for discussion.

Please consider this, MNHQ Flowers

AnneLovesGilbert · 30/12/2019 22:16

What they said.

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 30/12/2019 22:24

Excellent point totally agree

ArabellaDoreenFig · 30/12/2019 22:34

Another ‘aye’ here!

Spot on OP

MrsFogi · 30/12/2019 22:37

Really excellent idea OP.

ScrimshawTheSecond · 30/12/2019 22:50

yes, wholeheartedly agree.

ErrolTheDragon · 30/12/2019 22:52

Yes. That would be a much more appropriate framing of the additional rules.

(TBH the rules themselves could do with revamping to clarify that the statement 'Mumsnet will always stand in solidarity with vulnerable or oppressed minorities. ' includes solidarity with oppressed and vulnerable women and children and that the feminism board on a parenting website is a forum where their rights and needs can and should be championed.)

QuantumEntanglement · 30/12/2019 23:03

Agree too. Looks like we have a consensus.

Your move, MNHQ?

FleetsumNJetsum · 30/12/2019 23:04

@MNHQ There seems to be a lot of agreement here. Comment?

OccasionalKite · 30/12/2019 23:06

Yes, definitely, what OP said and others agree:

"...discussion of sex and gender" rather than "discussion of trans rights?"

TorchesTorches · 30/12/2019 23:12

Yes, agreed about sex and gender being a better descriptor. And a good point about ' trans rights ' marked at the top of a feminist page as being actually a bit debating.

Redshoeblueshoe · 30/12/2019 23:21

I agree

TheBullshitGoesOn · 30/12/2019 23:28

I agree.

GirlDownUnder · 30/12/2019 23:31

Agree, it’s a good suggestion @mnhq

WomanBornNotWorn · 30/12/2019 23:44

Agreed! At present, it's a finger-wagging 'we know you want to be mean' warning.

DickKerrLadies · 30/12/2019 23:58

I agree but IIRC you can't @ HQ. OP, you may have to report your own OP and ask for comment.

JanesKettle · 31/12/2019 00:07

The only reason we're discussing this at all is because of the impact on women's rights and child safeguarding and wellbeing

Absolutely! Remove the demands that impact on women's rights, support child + teen wellbeing and safeguarding, and support freedom of speech and association, and I have virtually nil to say on the subject. Managed to live 46 years without having to discuss it.

Creepster · 31/12/2019 00:07

It does seem ironic to have a trans rights post advisory pinned on FWR given that Feminism and women's rights have been redefined by TRAs as anti-trans.

Datun · 31/12/2019 00:14

I agree, too. Sex and gender. Especially as it includes stuff like toys will be toys, clothes will be clothes, etc.

It might also have the added benefit of reducing the negative attention that this board gets.

JanesKettle · 31/12/2019 00:20

I worked out why it's triggering to me.

In the same way one of my parents said to me they would always put the other (abusive) parent first, Mumsnet is saying that it will always put the other first*

For clarity, I did not just call all trans people abusers. But the political TRA movement itself ? I experience as quite abusive.

Toseland · 31/12/2019 00:30

Agree. Great idea - go for it MNHQ! I am tired of seeing that first.