Female staff shun MOD's pongy new mixed sex loos

[WomanBornNotWorn]

MOD have spent thousands of public money on new mixed loos no women want - doesn't give the men's opinion.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/female-staff-shun-mods-new-21177430.amp?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR1HEHi40z6tqD8-F87KFZJ1j7BKAGUxpvqhCckqarRjUc_lgG5z5fRhpk8

"My question is this, if men want single sex toilets, women want single sex toilets and disabled people (quite rightly) don’t want to give up the sole rights to their toilets then where are transgender people (transmen or transwomen) supposed to go?"

A third space is the answer. An accessible space. Who has consulted disabled people on this issue? I'm disabled and used to sharing the space with baby change facilities and CF's. I'm used to them being covered in piss, for a whole host of reasons. They also stink of shit - not just from babies nappies - but disabled people have been grudgingly accepting this for years. Another penis spraying piss everywhere doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I have seen women’s toilets in the state someone described - parents’ evening at my dd’s school. I had to pop to the loo and use the girl’s toilets. It was properly grim. I have occasionally seen sanitary bins which need emptying.

@FamilyOfAliens - so women who CAN’T (not won’t) use mixed sex facilities - would that be because of religion? 99% of swimming pools are mixed sex.

And the vast majority of sex related crimes at pools take place in mixed sex changing facilities.

They also run often have women only sessions

(Until men complain it's not fair. They never want a men only one, just to stop the men only one. Similar complaints when there are women only gyms, never heard of women complaining about the handful of men only gyms that exist).

Agreed - so I assumed the correspondent was talking about their home lavatory!

Yes, please look down your nose upon the people making your toilets clean. Fast food worker during uni.

@BeverleyGoldbergsJumpers ...so women who CAN’T (not won’t) use mixed sex facilities - would that be because of religion? 99% of swimming pools are mixed sex.

Or how about just because they said ‘no’. Novel concept right - women asking to just keep what they already carved out, without the need to again justify that need.

...because of religion? 99% of swimming pools are mixed sex.
So let the transwomen go to the mixed sex sessions, and because ‘no means not a negotiation on rights already won’, not the women only sessions.

No one is denying transwomen the right to swim, or (in a mixed sex arena) trying to “out” them.

If you have a petition for ‘transwomen only’ swim sessions, sign me up.

Oh and PS FamilyOfAliens said “... woman wouldn’t want to share” she did not say “...who CAN’T (your caps) (not won’t) use mixed sex facilities“

Literally everyone I've discussed this with, friends, family, colleagues, male and female, do not want gender neutral toilets! Why are they doing this?!

Women and men wee differently. Woman need toilets, that's a fact for goodness sake.

And women also have periods to deal with as well! I'd be mortified rustling around with sanitary products next to a cubicle with my 60 year old boss! I'm not sure he'd feel very comfortable having a dump next to me either. It's just ridiculous!

Unisex, third spaces are the answer! Not railroading over my right as a woman to have a safe and comfortable space to relieve myself at work.

@FamilyOfAliens - so women who CAN’T (not won’t) use mixed sex facilities - would that be because of religion? 99% of swimming pools are mixed sex.

Do look up the women only swimming sessions that so many leisure centres and pools set up for those women - along with many other Local Authority initiatives set up to increase access for those women into public life, health provision etc. And then look up how many of those swimming sessions, set up specifically for women who may choose or actively be forbidden by male relatives from undressing and being in a state undress around males, are now inclusive of males who want to be present.

Those women are instantly excluded. It does not matter how those males identify themselves, the women cannot place 'respecting their identity' over their faith and culture. They just get excluded. Likewise women with disabilities like Autism and Dementia who are unable to jump through the mental hoops to use language and behaviour in direct contrast with what their eyes are telling them, or who risk blurting out a fact that someone may find offensive. Or women who have been raped, abused, escaped domestic violence. Or the many women who went to women only sessions because they didn't feel safe to be in a swimming suit anywhere that male people were.

All to make those male people happy with having more choices and no boundaries. Instantly rendering the whole point of those women only sessions redundant. And excluding those harder to reach females from society and public spaces. Again.

How is this a good thing?

Sorry, went out and came back to see @BeverleyGoldbergsJumpers is still trying to deny women the right the retain the single sex spaces they worked so hard for.

But thanks to PP who explained in my absence why she’s wrong.

OMG I am NOT denying women the right to retain single sex spaces. So emotive and ridiculous. Questioning things does not make
me the enemy. I want single sex spaces (which I have already said in previous posts). . I don’t want mixed sex spaces to replace single sex spaces but am not opposed to them in addition to single sex spaces. I didn’t understand what was meant by women not being able to access them - I asked for clarity on that point.
This is the problem with this board, when people come on and ask questions which don’t flow with the agreed narrative they are immediately anti-women! I am a feminist and doing my best to raise my daughter as a feminist but I won’t ever stop asking questions. I’d be an idiot if I did.

Has anyone on here said you’re “the enemy” or “anti-women“? And you call others emotive!

I was just surprised you couldn’t think of a single reason why women wouldn’t want mixed-sex spaces to replace our single-sex spaces.

we were talking about the ponds where there is a women’s pond, men’s pond, mixed pond. So I questioned why some women cannot use the mixed space (when there is also the option of a women’s space). Personally I would also choose the single sex but I could use the mixed sex space. I wondered if there was a reason why women ‘couldn’t’ rather than they didn’t want to (perfectly understandable for women who have been victims of rape, DV etc).

Anyway this is semantics, I think the majority of people (men and women) would prefer single sex facilities but the fear of being labelled transphobic is enormous. If anyone hasn’t seen it, Doc Brown’s racist rap is brilliant. I think someone could do one about transphobia it’s so ludicrous.

I wondered if there was a reason why women ‘couldn’t’ rather than they didn’t want to (perfectly understandable for women who have been victims of rape, DV etc).

I hear you, but why does any women have to say which camp (couldn’t, wouldn’t) they fall into? In the immortal words of Posie Parker, “Fuck off - no!”

I can think of only one reason why women cannot access a mixed-sex space: because men prevent it.

Single-sex for religious or cultural reasons is purely about men controlling women.

Trauma-related reasons are the result of men abusing women.

Not to mention that when women are required to state (under this 'inclusive' regime) if they can't/won't, they're immediately opening the door to arguments that (and all these have actually happened)

a) if it's about their faith and culture then their faith/culture is wrong, unacceptable and SOME people of that faith don't mind so they need to get over themselves. I also remember a quote to the effect of people living in misogynist cultures should just leave. Which tells you the kind of level of human empathy, respect for others, life experience and basic intelligence that you're dealing with.

b) if it's about trauma/rape then they need to get over it because it's stupid and unfair to be anti men because of the actions of one man, and penises are just body parts etc, have they tried mindfulness? (Seriously. A MNetter is currently living rough because their inability to share living space with a biological male following repeated and awful trauma in domestic violence meant all refuges and the church told her she needed to try mindfulness and breathing. Because the male's needs to identify as they wished mattered more than her having shelter.) I'll ask again for the record because I yell these questions constantly to the universe in hope that someone, somewhere has some kind of rational answer: have you EVER seen anywhere anyone at any time suggest to a trans person that instead of minding about being misgendered they should try mindfulness? Would anyone dare? But raped women...….. crack on with that.

c) Justify whether the trauma really was bad enough that objectively the person asking agrees and so approves of their request to be apart from males in this situation. (See: Youth Hostel Association: please discuss your rape at the desk if you don't want to sleep in a mixed sex dorm with male strangers.)

In the words of JK Rowling, #Thisisnotadrill

I don't want to adjust my hair and makeup in front of my male work colleagues in the bogs,

And I'm sure they don't want to prink in front of the women either.

Of course neither group has been asked.

I wouldn’t want to take a dump in front of guys hanging about the sinks chatting or whatever guys do in a bog.
Not to keen on adjusting clothing or makeup in front of them either. Or changing out if my waterproof trousers into a skirt and tights. The cubicles are tiny. Much easier to do that in front of the sinks but you can’t if there are men there. Sigh

Beverley THE WOMEN'S POND IS NO LONGER WOMEN ONLY! For heaven's sake, how many times? They now allow men into the women's pond. So there is now a men's pond (men only), a mixed pond and a women's pond into which they allow men. So therefore another mixed pond. Men have their own single sex pond and also access to two other mixed sex ponds. Women only have access to two mixed sex ponds, no single sex provision.

I spend as little time in public loos as possible and would NEVER use a loo that men could use. I would NEVER use mixed sex changing rooms and would absolutely prefer a woman only swimming pool.
None of this is to do with religion or culture, it is to do with wanting to do things which could in any way be considered personal or intimate or exposing, such as going to the loo, removing clothing, dealing with menstruation, showering, drying myself, swimming, in a place where I do not feel uncomfortable because of men who I don't know being there. All of my friends and my MIL, SIL feel the same.

I don't think that is at all unreasonable. That is what I am used to, how society has functioned and no one has asked me, or my friends if I want it to change- the answer would be no. So who has decided it should?

So who has decided it should?

People born male who wish to be in rooms with women who are menstruating/drying themselves/sleeping/undressed/going to the loo. For their own personal reasons.

As a reverse opinion my DS is on the autistic spectrum and one of his
Issues is with public toilets and there being other people in them. He is finding it really difficult to go now as the concept of mixed toilets actually scared him. Using the disabled toilet is a no go either as he couldn't cope with someone shouting at him for not being physically disabled.

I hate them too.

I wouldn’t want to take a dump in front of guys hanging about the sinks chatting or whatever guys do in a bog.

Let’s not forget the morning sickness puking. IME, there’s a decency among women that means it doesn’t get mentioned - other than tacit support - until you’ve had your 12 week scan and are ready to go public at work. I’m not convinced men would be as circumspect, because they’ve not walked that tightrope of not wanting to damage promotion prospects etc by outing a pregnancy that may not progress.

Men don't chat in the bog they carefully ignore each other.

Very different etiquette.