Female staff shun MOD's pongy new mixed sex loos

[WomanBornNotWorn]

MOD have spent thousands of public money on new mixed loos no women want - doesn't give the men's opinion.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/female-staff-shun-mods-new-21177430.amp?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR1HEHi40z6tqD8-F87KFZJ1j7BKAGUxpvqhCckqarRjUc_lgG5z5fRhpk8

Funny how they don’t ever think of making the gents gender neutral and leaving the ladies untouched...

Or at the MOD they could have changed half and half of the facilities to be equally fair to transmen as well as transwomen...

Funny how they don’t ever think of making the gents gender neutral and leaving the ladies untouched
This ^^ is the answer. It's obvious that there are many more MtF trans people than FtM so it makes sense to hive off some of the men's over -provision and give it to the transfolk. Except that wouldn't give them the validation they seek now would it? And that's what makes this problematic as it turns a practical issue into something very sinister indeed, as we already know.

So is it true that men's shit smells worse than women's?

Beverley
This is a genuine question. What IS the solution?

Feminists have been saying for several years now, the solution is

Keep male spaces for male-only.
Keep female spaces for female-only.
Introduce additional mixed sex, gender neutral, unisex, whatever you want to call it spaces for everyone and anyone who is happy to use them.
This will include transpeople (because the presence of a transperson automatically makes a single space mixed sex anyway).
Do this WITHOUT taking away spaces for disabled people, women or men.

By "spaces" I mean ALL spaces, eg, a mixed option for The Olympics, for loos, for prisons, for swimming sessions, cycling races, weightlifting contests, changing rooms, dorms, whatever, every and any.

Basically, ring-fence female spaces, and then do whatever so transpeople can be included in whatever it is without taking away women-only spaces.

(A bit like how there used to be a Hampstead Heath male pond, female pond and mixed pond, but obviously now we only have 2 mixed sex ponds and one male-only pond)

The thing about male smells is not their poo. It's the fact their urine smells noticeably different. When it splashes everywhere it turns into yellow runnels that become very pongy indeed.

To be honest I wonder if any man would object to unisex loos. They get cleaned much more frequently, because they are wiped down by a majority of 50% of users. Therefore it is likely that if you are a man you are using a freshly wiped loo seat.

I don’t think taking away Male only spaces is the answer. How on earth is that fair! We can’t campaign and complain about our rights being violated and then say the solution is to do that to the other one. We invalidate our cause by unreasonable comments like that

A third space would be ideal but thoroughly impractical for small businesses who only have space for two toilet facilities. Huge corporations yes. Otherwise, no.

Where I work we have separate male , female , gender neutral and disabled toilets on every floor.

I don’t think taking away Male only spaces is the answer. How on earth is that fair!

Sectioning off a small portion of existing male space for those males who wish to present in a feminine manner seems perfectly reasonable to me where new-build third spaces are impractical.

I'd convert a section of the male changing rooms too.

But we all know that wouldn't be acceptable for those requiring the validation that accessing women's facilities provides. Somewhere to pee isn't the real issue here.

Whatever the solution is, it's not for women to sort it out.

Theres no 'oh but it's too difficult to find another answer, so budge up women' either.

People with male bodies using facilities for male bodied people is not taking anything away from males.

We're all ears waiting for your proposed alternate solution, Beverly!

Why is it when you put a load of men together, they feel the need to mark their territory?

Or are they just not toilet trained? Gross!

How is it ok to take away female spaces but not to take away male spaces given that females are the vulnerable group?

People with male bodies using facilities for male bodied people is not taking anything away from males.

Exactly. All it's really doing is trying to help men sort out why they don't like some other men in their loos.

Frankly it's nothing to do with women.

Keep out of women loos and if you have any problems take it up with the problem generators.

What IS the solution?

For everyone - including the violent men who are a danger to women, children and their non-conforming brethren, on pain of severe sentencing - to understand that human beings cannot change sex and that certain spaces are sex segregated for good reason.

Simples.

If some men don't want to share space with other males who dress in a "feminine" way then why not? In what way is not being able to control how other people dress harming them?

There was a thread a while back about another gov dept. It was linked to the head honcho there (Jonathan soneone?) concerting their loos. Was it dfe? Or health? Anyway, someone who can remember should foi them too!

Converting their loos! Concerting would be quite different!

Mixed loos sound good to me.
Women's loos are disgusting. Women hover over, rather than sit on the seat and the wee sprays everywhere - floor, seat, down the sides of the loo. Plus they are incapable of putting sanitary protection properly on the bin and there is used stuff all around the bin rather than in it. Women's loos make me gag. I try and avoid them whenever possible. I truly can't believe what people are saying on here about wine s loos being lovely and clean, and then wiping dune the seats whenever they go. It's simply not true. Women's loos are horrific. I think men generally are much cleaner in their use of public toilets.
I am a woman and much prefer mixed sex loos.

It's been fascinating to watch the rollout of these policies, with the organizations smugly commenting about how inclusive they're being while their staff make it clear how very un-included the policies make them feel. At what point do the wokescolding prats pushing this in each organization have to admit that it isn't working and everyone hates it? Do they just keep pushing in the hopes that everyone will stop complaining? Did they genuinely believe this would be welcomed, or was it an "eat your peas, kids, they're good for you" sort of thing?

This will probably sound daft, but I hate the thought of sharing toilets with male colleagues. If it's the individual cloak room type things then I guess it's just a hygiene issue, but if it's cubicles I hate the idea of being in toilets with men, it sounds stupid, we all need to go to the toilet but I work in a very male dominated team and don't want to go to the toilet next to them.

Mixed loos sound good to me.

Women's loos are disgusting. Women hover over, rather than sit on the seat and the wee sprays everywhere

Not sure you've quite grasped the meaning of the word mixed, here.

@dianebrewster Mon 30-Dec-19 10:08:07

Used to love the V&A members room - tiny and hidden away - nothing showy.They redid it, moved it, bigger, proper bar, more food choices. Gender neutral loos. Basically a trad ladies loo, sinks in a row, mirrors, cubicles.I met some very embarrassed blokes the first time I used it. The last time it truly smelled vile. Such a stupid idea. The old loos were unisex/accessible/ fully enclosed with sinks.

I'm a V&A member too but only over the last couple of years. I am not keen on the Members room - poor service and food isnt that great. But the "gender-neutral" loos were the final straw last month. Did you complain to the V&A?

Not sure you've quite grasped the meaning of the word mixed, here

Yes I'm.always confused by the logic that when single sex loos are disgusting or rife with bullying that doubling the number of people using it makes it better. And if theres staff that can clean or better supervise the toilets now where were they before?

Mixed loos sound good to me.
Women's loos are disgusting.

...said no woman ever. Given women hover more in mixed sex loos.

I do a job that is often done by women and over the past year I have learnt something from having a male boss.

Our job involves setting boundaries on behalf of our organisation. We analyse proposals from our external partners and then give notes, saying yes or no to the various things they want to do.

Obviously the external partners hate it when we say no, and so do some of our colleagues. There is a lot of push / pull on this; sometimes our internal colleagues frankly identify with external partners very hard and push us harder than they should (because they have sales targets and saying yes to everything makes it easier for them to meet them).

Anyway. One of the tricks I have repeatedly fallen for is that when I say "this violates our boundaries and can't be done" everyone goes "well what CAN they / we do then?" and this forces me into a position where it looks like I have to solve their problem. It tires me out, it weakens me, it makes me more likely to bend the boundaries because I feel that it is incumbent upon me to find a solution of some sort.

My male boss doesn't do this. He just doesn't take it on. If their work isn't good enough, it's their problem, not ours. If they don't have a solution, it is their problem, not ours. Our job is to manage our boundaries and our standards. Their job is to find a way to work within them that fulfills their commercial objectives.

So yeah. Sorry about the ramble, BUT: I am sick of trying to be "constructive" which means "everyone's problems are my problems to solve".

they aren't my problems to solve.

Our issue is that we need clean, safe, single sex loos, for women. Whatever other provision exists for others - I don't care, except I generally hope it works for them and everyone can be happy. Still - not my problem.

We tried to be constructive, to think holistically, to solve all problems at the same time. Why? Who gives a shit about us? It just tires us out and weakens us and makes us distracted and susceptible to more demands.