Are you non binary...

[Bearsinmotion]

According to Wikipedia?

Non-binary, or genderqueer, is a spectrum of gender identities that are not exclusively masculine or feminine‍—identities that are outside the gender binary.[1] Non-binary identities can fall under the transgender umbrella, since many non-binary people identify with a gender that is different from their assigned sex[2] but does not necessarily, as some intersex people are also non-binary.

Non-binary people may identify as having two or more genders (being bigender or trigender);[4][5] having no gender (agender, nongendered, genderless, genderfree or neutrois); moving between genders or having a fluctuating gender identity (genderfluid);[6] being third gender or other-gendered (a category that includes those who do not place a name to their gender).

Gender identity is separate from sexual or romantic orientation,[8] and non-binary people have a variety of sexual orientations, just as cisgender people do.

A non-binary gender is not associated with a specific gender expression, such as androgyny. Non-binary people as a group have a wide variety of gender expressions, and some may reject gender "identities" altogether.

Just curious as to how many people this describes, who would not describe themselves as non binary.

Me: yes, as I reject gender “identities” altogether, but I would be reluctant to describe myself as non-binary.

Yep me too, for the same reasons.

It seems odd that in order to reject gender identity, I have to have a gender identity that shows I reject gender identity...

I always knew I was brave and stunning.

No, everything I do is feminine. Even my acts of feminine aggression and feminine leadership and feminine gobbling of food.

I don’t think l have a gender and have described myself as gender free. According to that l am non-binary. Amazing.

No, I'm not. Because it's all nonsense and there's no such thing as a "gender identity" that actually exists.

Yes, it's just another way of saying one has a personality that doesn't entirely tally with behaviour & attitudes stereotypically attributed to yr sex.

It's not exactly the most stunning and elegant of insights - more the result of the conflation of sex and gender, I expect.

Reinventing the wheel, but as a hexagon instead of a circle.

I don't have a gender either, since I believe that 'gender' is just 'sex role stereotypes' repackaged, and I reject those. I suppose I count by Wikipedia's definition, then.

Nah. I like pink and purple and have a vagina so all is well here.

I don't feel male or female. I'm just me. My genitals don't define who I am. But I think it's because I'm autistic, I'm more open minded to the differences people can feel towards gender identity. My body is like a suitcase I travel around in. It doesn't tell me who I am.

According to that I probably am.

But no I'm not cos I'm not indulging this crap by defining myself according to it.

I am me
I am a real human adult female
I like wearing trousers
I like a pint of beer
I can fix things and know the mechanics of how a car works
I like painting my nails and having long hair
I am only female

But that’s the problem Lang, it seems to me that you are non-binary according to that definition.

Interestingly it also seems to make me trans, as only intersex people identifying as nonbinary do not fit under the trans umbrella.

Genitals define your sex. Sex is binary.

My 'gender identity' is just another phrase for personality.
And on that basis I fall into the ridiculous non binary label!

Lang speaks sense.

I suppose I'd need a definition of what a gender identity is (a definition that actually makes sense) before I could say whether I have one.

I've looked, and asked lots, in the name of 'educating myself' but no-one can give me one that doesn't involve some mystical, undefinable feeling of how stereotypically girly or not one is.

Surly anyone’s personality would be non binary though?

No one is100% female personality and no one is 100% male personality
And those male and female personality traits are just things that have been defined from outdated reasonings

Two examples -

‘I am female but have male personality traits because I like to work and co tribute financially to the household’

‘I am male but have female personality traits as I like to cook and bake’

sorry, I should caveat my pp with genitals recorded at birth.

Removing your penis (which only happens in a minority of cases anyway) does not make somebody a different sex.

Yes, I fall under that description. It's bollocks though. I'm just a woman.

Now, if we're talking about the socially-constructed cis/trans illusion, I'd happily say I don't exist in that binary. But if I explore that thought out loud I'll get deleted.

I'm not sure...I mean, I have a personality that is unique and doesn't conform to anything as I do as a please (whilst being a law-abiding citizen who makes a contribution to society).

I am female because...biology, but I don't have a gender so I am gender non conforming and therefore do not fit into binary ideals of what gender is, so therefore I am non binary, at least queer theory would say so, I just say I'm me.

But that’s the problem Lang, it seems to me that you are non-binary according to that definition.

According to that theology, you mean. It's no more real to me than any other religion is real. It's an unfalsifiable theocratic notion.

I'm not non-binary because non-binary doesn't exist, no matter what rubbish get typed into Wikipedia. It's religious bluster and I don't take part.

I just hate the internal inconsistencies in the current movement. The whole notion of being “gender critical” seems to me to be non binary, and therefore trans.

I am very much with you LittleSweet, I love this description:

“My body is like a suitcase I travel around in. It doesn't tell me who I am.”

I travel around in a female body, but I don’t “identify” as female. It doesn’t tell me who I am but it does impact how others treat me, what I can and can’t do. I would not describe
myself as trans, but Wikipedia would.

Hm. One could get philosophical. I don't think of my body as a suitcase with a mind inside it, I think of it as a collection of parts and processes that include consciousness and the sense of self. All of those cells are coded xx and so female. Whether that means the mental processes are therefore female is very debatable. We can't know because there is no way to remove oneself from the situation - it's not possible to change sex.

I suppose the crux would be whether xx chromosomes correlate with mental processes and sensations. The female brain, again. Happy to read more on this area - I think we generally know very little on the subject.

So which, if any, of these statements, are incompatible with the current ideology?

I am gender critical, which means I do not have a gender identity.
Not having a gender identity means I do not “identify” with my birth sex.
This means I am not “cis”.
I do not identify as male. So I do not identify with the gender binary.
Which means I am non binary, and therefore trans.

Equally, I am gender critical. Which means I do not not believe in that gender is binary, because I do not believe it exists outside of a set of social stereotypes.
I believe that sex is binary, but not that I or anyone else must conform to gender stereotypes because of their birth sex.
Therefore I am transphobic.

The weird thing for me is how much gender matters online. Like, I know a lot of men fake being women online. But even apart from that, it still takes up so much of people's attention and matters to our identities even though we can't see each other's bodies, and never will.

Like, my prediction would have been that gender would just disappear in an environment like that. But maybe it takes a generation or two. I grew up offline, so maybe gender is too concrete for my generation.

Bearsinmotion - your problem is that you are submitting to a debate using only the opposition's terms and framing. Stop doing that and it all becomes immediately clear.

I read about non-binary and think yes, that's me.

However I'm not so self absorbed that it's something constantly on my mind and I don't "identify" as such as I'm just me. A unique person like everyone else. I am female though, so that is why she/her is what I am (although I have been called Sir a few times and not given a shit about being misgendered because who has time for that?)

It's really a load of bollocks isn't it. Who, on this earth, fully identifies with every single stereotype of their gender? Certainly no one I know.