Slogans!

[xxyzz]

This thread is about slogans, and the need for them.

I've commented previously that one of the great strengths the TRAs currently possess is that they have had several years to frame the debate on their own terms, before most feminists were even aware that there was an issue, and in particular, to devise and propagate widely used and certain easy-to-remember slogans.

As others have pointed out, TWAW is extremely effective at ending discusssion. It pithily expresses an easy-to-understand point, but requires dense and not-easy-to-follow text to argue against.

Given that most social media interactions are brief, people are busy, and not necessarily particularly bright, and given that TWAW has been out there as a 'truth' for years, GC feminists are facing an uphill struggle to explain in similarly pithy, simple language why it is wrong.

Which brings me to SLOGANS.

GC feminists need to be redefining the debate with our own, equally, or more effective slogans. These need to explain our key points using simple words that everyone understands, and they need to be repeated relentlessly- as TWAW has been. The success of 'Get Brexit done' as a slogan - and the Tories religiously on-message use of it throughout the election campaign- was a big part of their recent success. Just as 'Take Back Control'was a hugely effective slogan before the referendum in 2016.

The importance of slogans should not be under-estimated.

FWIW, I don't think 'Women are Adult Human Females' is a successful slogan at all. Because:

a) It sounds utterly batshit to anyone not already following the debate - of course women are adult human females!
b) It allows TRAs to continue to frame the debate in terms of a discussion over who is a woman. When actually, this is something that has been known for thousands of years and even a toddler could tell you. We should not be arguing primarily on their territory. It does us no favours.
c) Most importantly, it ignores women's main issues with TRA claims. We are not arguing over terminology, we are arguing over women's and children's SAFETY and RIGHTS.The terminology matters only insofar as it is being used to undermine that safety and those rights. But by putting the cart before the horse, we have lost most of our audience, who don't follow us long enough past the batshitttery to find out WHY we care about the terminology.

So I think we need slogans that go back to basics.

We need slogans that fight on our own territory and frame the debate through our own eyes, not through the eyes of those intent on dismantling women's rights.

I would suggest that what we need are slogans that simply and clearly point out and go on the offensive over misogyny and attacks on women's rights - as feminists have always done.

Please suggest your effective slogans below. Sure that we can crowdsourced some better slogans than we have currently.

Over to you...

Just be kind.
Little Red Riding Hood sums it up well.

MVisa, peace out, I’m not silencing or manipulating anyone. You’re the only poster telling others to stop, repeatedly!

Anyway, back to the point, slogans are great, but the ones about men should be free to wear what they want without fear of being labelled just aren’t right for this point in time, due to widely held negative perceptions of men who wear feminine clothes. So those would not be top of my list for great slogan choices that will be effective.

One I read on here ages ago and use all the time in response to TWAW:

"Only men can be transwomen"

Wearing feminine clothes and wearing women's underwear aren't quite the same thing tbh

I see chaps on the tube in makeup, skirts, etc and no one bats an eyelid, or at least no one gives them hassle. I am sure GNC males do get shit but it's been done for decades and it's mainly men who give them shit/ or at least are dangerous.

I went to a club recently to see some bands there were more boys than not wearing skirts, they looked fab.

For the majority of the time the lingerie thing is a fetish and I put that in a different category. For the reasons explained. And as pp mentions, if they don't tell us then we don't know do we, so no probs. The amount of men who like to share around wearing women's undies,IRL and online is not insignificant though. It's not the same as a man wearing a skirt or rocking a nice handbag and makeup or whatever and disingenuous to pretend it is imo.

Some cracking suggestions.
I think what is most effective is focusing on what women need, not on what we want to stop happening, because people see that as denying someone else something, even if that something is harmful to women, they go deaf before getting that bit.

So, for me something like - 'stamp out misogyny too' or 'why isn't misogyny a hate-crime too?' - I'm amazed how many people don't know this, don't recognise it, don't see why it's a problem etc. It's so basic to get people to understand that women don't have the rights most people think they do and it underpins everything else. If misogyny were actually a hate-crime the balance of so many things would change. And even if we can't acheive that, the more people actually see and understand this one thing the more they will understand the rest.

And secondly, 'why no third spaces?' - since this is actually fighting FOR something for both women and trans people. Yes I know there are complications, but the basic principle that it shouldn't be A versus B but about finding ways to accomodate both acceptably needs to be rammed home.

Women get deleted.

YY, youkiddingme

I think most people believe that women's rights have been gradually improving since 1918 when the first women got the vote and are on a (slow) upwards trajectory. They have no idea that women's rights are facing an existential struggle in 2019.

What an interesting thread. This seems to be the overarching issue of our times, which side has the best PR stunts and slogans. I particularly like the 'Sisters Not Cisters' slogan.
Just off the top of my head I would add the following suggestions for consideration:

1. Mother Nature Can't Be Wrong - Conceived Not Assigned.
2. Women's Spaces - Penis Free Zone'. (using the Ghostbusters sign logo - penis instead of ghost).
3. Some Women Have Penises - FAKE NEWS ALERT.
4. Fact Not Fiction - Defend Women's Rights

I feel like it would be good to have a symbol or graphic - like the bluebird in the Hunger Games.

Yes xxyzz - we had an elderly relative over Christmas who was trying to explain to me why 'all this women's lib stuff has gone too far'.

She is 86 so I left that battle alone but many people think 'women have got equality and more so why would they be mean and not grant it to trans people too'
I still have trouble getting some people to see that 6 women on a senior committee of 20 isn't OVER-representation! And those people aren't all men..

How about something that speaks to the absurdity of it like willy-nilly

-Giving access willy-nilly
-Men in woman’s spaces willy-nilly
-Changing sex willy-nilly

Ie Wether desired or not. Without regard for wishes or consequences of those involved. Seemingly at random. A little pun...

Reading your resummarising yesterday at 19.29 gave me an idea xxyyzz

All of your are not about arguing on their field they are about safety mostly physical safety but also emotionally feeling safe. The only one that is a stretch is the prescribing medicine to children but that's quite niche and luckily doesn't happen often in this country at least at the moment.

It reminded me what convinced me as a woman with some lovely trans friends who really feels for their emotional struggle that there are issues with just moving men into the women category. It was safety.

So it's nice and simple as a slogan

Safety first or for a longer one that opens up the conversation to make more complex arguements *safety first, being nice second". You can even talk about how if someone breaks into your home you may want to help them address their drug addicts and/or mental health and feel sympathy for their plight but you grab and weapon and call for help first.

I also like this as it's something that's logical and emotional. And it's not about being mean to others because you disagree with them it's about protecting women and children as xxyyzz said. Also it allows you to say yes I can be inclusive of this person who is different to me but I will look at the facts. For instance, you can look at the circumstances so I for one am happy for a nice person who feels like a women to use a changing room that's it's own little cupboard in the main shop with a curtain. There's theoretically no extra safety concerns (obviously in real life you would consider possible safety concerns that's the whole point) but would also decline a convicted rapist being moved into a women's prison where they have easy access to vulnerable women. You can still treat them with respect but also look at the facts. I hope this all makes sense I have been up all night with a sick child.

We know journos can be lazy. If we can feed them the pictures and the sensationalist stories then they'll use them.

That doesn't seem to be the case if they fear the wokescolds. How sensationalist is the Dana Rivers story, and how much attention is it getting from journos? You have a transwoman who got media attention (including being interviewed on TV) for getting fired from a job as a high school teacher, in coverage that largely ignored or downplayed allegations of his ( I'm not gonna call a male murderer of women she or they) compelling students to listen to him talk about his sexuality.

After taking an active role in protests against an all woman music festival (Mich Fest), he went on to kill a lesbian couple who were festival attendees and their son. (and set their house on fire.) He was covered in their blood when he was caught trying to escape on a motorcycle belonging to one of the women.

Sounds plenty sensational to me, but most people have never heard of it, and California (where the murders happened) people who care are hoping that his trail will at least be live-tweeted. Hopefully by someone who won't have to go pick up their kids while proceedings are going on.
I suspect that if it was a lesbian who had murdered a transgender couple and their son, it would be a sufficiently sensational, and wokerati approved story.

Sorry about the derail- slogan....

Transwomen's violence is male violence

Hi everyone, long time lurker and second time poster here.

How about some photos showing kids and teenagers doing gnc activities eg. a girl wielding a hammer, a boy playing with dolls, a teenage girl dressed in a masculine way beside a boy wearing makeup with the tag #transmenot or #don'ttransme,

Or adults showing photos of themselves as kids showing same kind of gnc activities with the tag #stillnottrans as a poke at all of those people who claim children/teenagers persistently doing something gnc is an indicator of gender dysphoria.

Actually, an important thing about women's spaces is that many changing rooms and ladies' rooms are not strictly penis-free zones, because our young sons have to come in with us.

Sorry, but I'd rather acknowledge this weakness/ loophole in the argument before it's used against women's spaces! Of course, it's different when we are the protectors (and police: my DS used to faff a lot and was silly, so I was relieved when he came of age to have to use the male changing area!).

Maybe a comparison between these three scenarios would show "no refuge":
(1) man sitting down quietly on the "throne" to read the news in peace, (2) women trying to insert a tampon while preventing child from opening cubicle door, (3) woman in cubicle in pub/club, locking cubicle door against the drunken man outside the door, in the mixed-sex toilet facilities. (Can anyone remember the story this month/ last month about the club which had deliberately made its facilities unisex, and the woman giving the account had a panic attack in a cubicle?)

How about some photos showing kids and teenagers doing gnc activities eg. a girl wielding a hammer, a boy playing with dolls, a teenage girl dressed in a masculine way beside a boy wearing makeup with the tag #transmenot or #don'ttransme,

Or adults showing photos of themselves as kids showing same kind of gnc activities with the tag #stillnottrans as a poke at all of those people who claim children/teenagers persistently doing something gnc is an indicator of gender dysphoria.

Brilliant!

Cookie I like that idea.

There is the charity - girls like construction toys too -

Also, I read somewhere about being against ‘optimistic safeguarding’ which is effectively what self id is. I thought that was quite good.

I know that the billboard W=AHF was great as it highlighted fact and generated publicity about the bleeding obvious. #StatementOfFact,FactsAtRisk

Hello long time lurker here (think you are all wonderful btw) braving a first time post!

After reading through the thread another idea to add to the discussion:

How about thinking more about the imagery of what is being railed against in a series of pictures each with its own tag line- examples such as (thought through v quickly please only view as illustration)

A female in the toilets with “Protect my privacy”

A mother and daughter in changing room “save our private spaces”

A female in a DV hostel “respect my rights”

A child somewhere (already running low as trying to get the idea out quickly) “safeguard me”

An older person in hospital bed “defend my dignity”

A female on a sports pitch...

With the same strap line then at the bottom of the whole series along the lines of “everyone matters; sex based rights matter; for more information...”

Sorry bit rushed but principles are there! Love a bit of brainstorming in the morning!

"Cis is sexist"

Also just noting here that I'm aware that the standing for women sticker that quotes the EA and looks very official has made a few woke people think it's really officially real and the ensuing debate included a lot around sex and gender and that it was actually the law.

So perhaps it's not about slogans which mindless sheep chant, but facts, used well and with sharpness in the right contexts. 🐑

And I really like the points made in the post before mine.

(I've just read a thread in very big a baby wearing fb group re the sticker, one below.)

Who produces those stickers? I'm guessing it's a woman's group but hoping it's a council or government thing..

Standing for women.

Don't Revive Gender Stereotypes

Doesn't cover the aspect of protecting women's spaces - but it's an aspect of this discussion that I think on the face of it a lot of people might agree with.

I'm new and on the fence about this whole thing by the way. I do feel like I see both sides and I worry about being mean. The part that I really relate to on the GC side is that I don't feel like I contain some essence of female gender, other than my actual body, and I resent the suggestion that I do.

I'm still not at all convinced that sloganeering is our best tactic, or even a good tactic at all for us. They have better, more resourced, PR than we do and they have no actual arguments, only sloganeering. Our strength lies in the fact that our arguments stand up without advertising agency-provided thought terminating cliches.

But a lurking friend sent me these so I'll add them in!

Child Protection Without Exception

If you can’t see sex, you can’t see sexism

Those two are excellent, Lang.