Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Slogans!

299 replies

xxyzz · 26/12/2019 08:34

This thread is about slogans, and the need for them.

I've commented previously that one of the great strengths the TRAs currently possess is that they have had several years to frame the debate on their own terms, before most feminists were even aware that there was an issue, and in particular, to devise and propagate widely used and certain easy-to-remember slogans.

As others have pointed out, TWAW is extremely effective at ending discusssion. It pithily expresses an easy-to-understand point, but requires dense and not-easy-to-follow text to argue against.

Given that most social media interactions are brief, people are busy, and not necessarily particularly bright, and given that TWAW has been out there as a 'truth' for years, GC feminists are facing an uphill struggle to explain in similarly pithy, simple language why it is wrong.

Which brings me to SLOGANS.

GC feminists need to be redefining the debate with our own, equally, or more effective slogans. These need to explain our key points using simple words that everyone understands, and they need to be repeated relentlessly- as TWAW has been. The success of 'Get Brexit done' as a slogan - and the Tories religiously on-message use of it throughout the election campaign- was a big part of their recent success. Just as 'Take Back Control'was a hugely effective slogan before the referendum in 2016.

The importance of slogans should not be under-estimated.

FWIW, I don't think 'Women are Adult Human Females' is a successful slogan at all. Because:

a) It sounds utterly batshit to anyone not already following the debate - of course women are adult human females!
b) It allows TRAs to continue to frame the debate in terms of a discussion over who is a woman. When actually, this is something that has been known for thousands of years and even a toddler could tell you. We should not be arguing primarily on their territory. It does us no favours.
c) Most importantly, it ignores women's main issues with TRA claims. We are not arguing over terminology, we are arguing over women's and children's SAFETY and RIGHTS.The terminology matters only insofar as it is being used to undermine that safety and those rights. But by putting the cart before the horse, we have lost most of our audience, who don't follow us long enough past the batshitttery to find out WHY we care about the terminology.

So I think we need slogans that go back to basics.

We need slogans that fight on our own territory and frame the debate through our own eyes, not through the eyes of those intent on dismantling women's rights.

I would suggest that what we need are slogans that simply and clearly point out and go on the offensive over misogyny and attacks on women's rights - as feminists have always done.

Please suggest your effective slogans below. Sure that we can crowdsourced some better slogans than we have currently.

Over to you...

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
xxyzz · 29/12/2019 00:38

Also, probably good to get our slogans stress-tested on MN. Genuinely.

If they don't even make it past the MN moderators, I don't fancy their chances in the Wild West of moderation that is Twitter etc.

OP posts:
theflushedzebra · 29/12/2019 00:38

Oh we're back to strikes for innocuous stuff again are we. Merry Christmas, FWRers - same old, same old - women, you may not express yourselves. Hmm

GirlDownUnder · 29/12/2019 08:08

It was a strike. Communication from MN didn't tell me which guideline had been broken

Wow - that sucks! I hope this thread doesn’t get deleted as ‘against the spirit’ cos I’ve found it interesting, useful, and where allowed Hmm funny.

NeurotrashWarrior · 29/12/2019 08:31

Goodness, look at Ellenback's collection Shock

Slogans!
Slogans!
NeurotrashWarrior · 29/12/2019 08:31

*sarcasm

Threadbaretoe · 29/12/2019 09:13

Interesting thread!

There are so many competing issues and interests wrt feminism and transgenderism and the power of TWAW is that it covers everything. We can't address issues of safeguarding, dignity, respect, consent, choice, medicalisation of a social phenomenon,sexual inequality etc with a single, uncomplicated slogan.
I think our best shot is to focus on challenging the TWAW mantra simply, calmly and directly. Then when we get accusations of being exclusionary, unkind, etc. To simply, calmly and directly invite discussion about problem solving each 'exclusionary' issue. Once people acknowledge that sex does matter, sex isn't complex, that there are conflicts of interest between TW and W, proper discussion can take place.

My strategy is......
TW are not female.
People with DSDs (or people with intersex conditions) are male or female.

From my experience, this stops debate in its tracks. All is needed as follow up is..... TW cannot be TW if they are female. TW are not TW if they're female with a DSD. It causes flouncing from those who will only start from false assumptions, as they have no ground to fight from once this is accepted. Those that stick around take on board the conflicts of interest.

I provide further challenge as I work hard to be supportive of people who have trans identities. I use the analogy of diabetes quite a bit. If a family member has diabetes it is not functional to pretend everybody or nobody has it, that sugar doesn't exist, to try and deal with it with insulin alone or to require everyone to eat a diabetes friendly diet at all times

terfsandwich · 29/12/2019 10:24

Ooh lah! Just checked back and mine was deleted on page 2. I suggested a certain hypothetical ideology, which bears no relationship to anything relevant, was sexist and homophobic.

So there you go.

xxyzz · 29/12/2019 11:32

Thanks to everyone for generally maintaining a positive tone .

I don't remember your posts being particularly controversial, terfsandwich, but there we go (or rather there they went).

My aim in this thread was to try to think about the positive and urgent messages we wanted to put across re WOMEN'S RIGHTS. It was NOT intended as a discussion, positive or negative, about trans rights. Which are a different area.

I wanted to focus on the framing of the debate from the angle of women's and girls' rights, and children's safeguarding, only. And am grateful for all the creative and brilliant ideas so far. Flowers

OP posts:
Iturnedmyfaceaway · 29/12/2019 18:49

History tells us there are no exceptions to safeguarding

shedquarters · 29/12/2019 21:50

Hope I'm not too late to add this. Can't take credit for it, just lifted it off an almighty row on Stonewall Twitter:
Of Trans Lobby..
Its quite clearly a sexual liberation movement for the kinky nut tuckers.

ChattyLion · 29/12/2019 22:45

How about this for ‘women budge up, women be kind’ types:

If you choose not to see sex, you are choosing not to see sexism

RicketyClickety · 30/12/2019 21:30

Liberation not Medication

Iturnedmyfaceaway · 30/12/2019 21:30

" Liberation not Medication"

:)

RicketyClickety · 30/12/2019 21:30

or
Liberate Not Medicate.

Iturnedmyfaceaway · 30/12/2019 21:52

even better.

Liberate don't medicate?

RicketyClickety · 30/12/2019 22:09

@Iturnedmyfaceaway Nice.

Iturnedmyfaceaway · 30/12/2019 22:15

:)

just needs punctuation...

Liberate - don't medicate!

whatnow40 · 31/12/2019 12:52

Saw this on a T shirt today: Science doesn't care what you believe

"We made this site to talk about and promote secularism, atheism, science, technology, and culture.
Our topics range from science, culture, criticism of different ideologies, and more. Because at the end of the day, science doesn’t care what you believe."

How about something similar - Biology doesn't care how you feel

Although I quite like the original and that it is not specifically for GC feminists. It's something that many people already accept and believe, perhaps a way forward is to take GC views more mainstream in this way?

WrathoFaeKlop · 02/01/2020 11:42

Another potential slogan.

Womens needs FIRST before transwomens DEMANDS.
Followed by the excellent "Women don't have penises".

Where's my sharpie...

ChattyLion · 02/01/2020 13:30

Gents keep out of the Ladies

Xanthangum · 06/01/2020 10:59

Late to the party, sorry.

But my suggestion is: "Trans women are trans women."

MoleSmokes · 22/02/2020 16:17

Resurrecting the thread to add that there is a new option for a slogan, courtesy of @Glinner

The Word "Woman" is Taken

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3827698-Woman-is-taken?msgid=94102177

There is a place for "definition" slogans just as much as for "topic" slogans IMHO.

Fair Play for Women and Girls

  • staggeringly good whether specifically for sport or more generally.

Adult Human Female

  • brilliant in its simplicity and for highlighting the absurdity that a dictionary definition could be considered offensive!

woman | ˈwʊmən
adult human female

Lesbians Don't Have Penises

  • when explained to the bemused, leads to "WTAF!!!!" reaction and what must surely be a lasting impact??

Not Women's Crimes

  • My preference rather than the vaguer hashtag #NotOurCrimes

Out of My Panties, NOW!!!

  • bit of humour for highlighting a serious subject? That might also lead people to:
outofmypantiesnow.wordpress.com

Woman: A fact, not a feeling

  • love that one, OldPrion

The more "wordy" suggestions in the thread are more "strap lines" than "slogans", ie. the "small print explainer" under a Headline, so would work better under/alongside a slogan, to make it more intelligible and hit home with those previously unaware of the issues.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 22/02/2020 18:55

Biology is not bigotry.

DickKerrLadies · 22/02/2020 19:00

Cis gendering is misgendering.

It's so awful it's brilliant. It even sounds woke.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page