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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Slogans!

299 replies

xxyzz · 26/12/2019 08:34

This thread is about slogans, and the need for them.

I've commented previously that one of the great strengths the TRAs currently possess is that they have had several years to frame the debate on their own terms, before most feminists were even aware that there was an issue, and in particular, to devise and propagate widely used and certain easy-to-remember slogans.

As others have pointed out, TWAW is extremely effective at ending discusssion. It pithily expresses an easy-to-understand point, but requires dense and not-easy-to-follow text to argue against.

Given that most social media interactions are brief, people are busy, and not necessarily particularly bright, and given that TWAW has been out there as a 'truth' for years, GC feminists are facing an uphill struggle to explain in similarly pithy, simple language why it is wrong.

Which brings me to SLOGANS.

GC feminists need to be redefining the debate with our own, equally, or more effective slogans. These need to explain our key points using simple words that everyone understands, and they need to be repeated relentlessly- as TWAW has been. The success of 'Get Brexit done' as a slogan - and the Tories religiously on-message use of it throughout the election campaign- was a big part of their recent success. Just as 'Take Back Control'was a hugely effective slogan before the referendum in 2016.

The importance of slogans should not be under-estimated.

FWIW, I don't think 'Women are Adult Human Females' is a successful slogan at all. Because:

a) It sounds utterly batshit to anyone not already following the debate - of course women are adult human females!
b) It allows TRAs to continue to frame the debate in terms of a discussion over who is a woman. When actually, this is something that has been known for thousands of years and even a toddler could tell you. We should not be arguing primarily on their territory. It does us no favours.
c) Most importantly, it ignores women's main issues with TRA claims. We are not arguing over terminology, we are arguing over women's and children's SAFETY and RIGHTS.The terminology matters only insofar as it is being used to undermine that safety and those rights. But by putting the cart before the horse, we have lost most of our audience, who don't follow us long enough past the batshitttery to find out WHY we care about the terminology.

So I think we need slogans that go back to basics.

We need slogans that fight on our own territory and frame the debate through our own eyes, not through the eyes of those intent on dismantling women's rights.

I would suggest that what we need are slogans that simply and clearly point out and go on the offensive over misogyny and attacks on women's rights - as feminists have always done.

Please suggest your effective slogans below. Sure that we can crowdsourced some better slogans than we have currently.

Over to you...

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ValancyRedfern · 26/12/2019 10:33

I think being self evidently true is a good thing for a slogan. Lesbians don't have penises and adult human female are good because they invite the question 'isnt that obvious?' then we can explain. We can't get everything into a slogan. Another word for them is thought terminating clichés.

ValancyRedfern · 26/12/2019 10:35

Or what Datun said much more eloquently above me!

Datun · 26/12/2019 10:35

Lesbians don't have penises' was pretty effective

Agreed!

And it's good, because it says several things in that one sentence. Identifying yourself as a lesbian, despite being male, has to be a lot about the sex.

And a male lesbian is already something that people are very familiar with in terms of heterosexual men wanting to have sex with lesbians. It's already a recurring theme.

And despite it being a position that many people grasp instantly, it's not one they respect.

Helmetbymidnight · 26/12/2019 10:38

yes lesbians dont have penises - women dont have dicks- etc
there must be a pithy way of saying something about womens sport and balls?

xxyzz · 26/12/2019 10:39

SidJS - yes. Thank you, exactly what I was trying to express but better.

fuckitywhy - I understand your point, but would disagree that simplifying complex issues = brainwashing. You are free not to use simplified slogans, obviously, but I think there is a choice to be made between expressing complex ideas in their full complexity always, and actually being heard. Most people don't have time to read long complex posts on things and probably won't remember what they said if they do.

I'm a remainer who has spent the last several years in horror watching the Remain campaign fuck up its messaging and branding both pre-referendum and pre-election by eschewing simple, positive messages that cut through, and this has led the country to an outcome I find horrifying.

I don't want to watch the battle over women's rights end up with a similarly frightening outcome.

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candative · 26/12/2019 10:39

Well how about extending it to "women don't have penises". For the uninitiated it's a shock that we are expected to accept that a person who self IDs as female but might present as male in many contexts can share our spaces.

SlightlyWizened · 26/12/2019 10:40

I agree with NonnyMouse1313's suggestion.
Picture of Boy George with Man under it
Picture of Ellen Degeneres with Woman under it
Ditto Russel Brand, David Bowie, that ceramic bloke and anyone else anyone can think of who defies gender norms
Then maybe a sentence pointing out that how you want to present is fine or something

NonnyMouse1337 · 26/12/2019 10:40

'Lesbians don't have penises' is actually a pretty good slogan because outside of the queer bubble everyone knows this is true, which then invites a deeper conversation about how lesbians in particular are being affected by trans propaganda.

I think it's good to use all sorts of strategies - slogans, articles, videos and animations etc.
Different people respond to different messages and techniques, so it's important that GC feminists use a wide range of methods as this will help the message spread more widely.

Twistables · 26/12/2019 10:40

I think the slogans idea is great. I think the term 'gender critical' has been extremely negative for the campaign as it suggests negativity and criticism (I know why but in this world of positivity it has a negative brand). I would like sth like 'my body is me' 'learning to respect my body' or 'body- acceptance helps'

WrathofFaeKIop · 26/12/2019 10:40

TRA's saying 'Just be kind' grates with me as it seems to accuse others of being less than kind, which in this case, is a lie.

aliasundercover · 26/12/2019 10:40

Now what rhymes with 'fanny'?

SlightlyWizened · 26/12/2019 10:41

Sorry NonnyMouse1337

Helmetbymidnight · 26/12/2019 10:43

#we're all born in the wrong body

#fight stereotypes not biology

not catchy i know Grin

LangCleg · 26/12/2019 10:45

xxyzz - don't worry, not taking it personally! I just think that there are/have been dozens of good aphorisms already. As soon as they're recognised by the opposition as at all effective, they're rapidly shut down as hate speech, using the institutional and corporate power they wield. It is what it is.

Our success lies in the truth, whether succinctly expressed or not.

NonnyMouse1337 · 26/12/2019 10:45

What's to be sorry about, SlightlyWizened? Smile

CrissmussMockers · 26/12/2019 10:46

CrissmussMockers - Do you have a suggestion that women can use for our own cause?

Biology Is Real

(five syllables, but I think Biology is the key word.)

PencilsInSpace · 26/12/2019 10:48

Slogans were very effective for tras in the age of #NoDebate. Less so now, because increasingly they can't get away with that shit. There is a debate and as soon as we are allowed to have it their ideology falls to bits. We saw that in the run up to the GE.

I saw this clip the other day - Madeleine Kearns and James Morton, sitting on the same BBC sofa and politely disagreeing:

You probably wouldn't have seen something like this even a year ago. No tra would have agreed to even be in the same segment as a 'known t**f' so they would have dropped Kearns and just featured a tra.

So I think we're now at the point where we can at least begin to have respectful debate and unless you think Twitter is where it's at, slogans are a bit redundant.

If we do still need slogans then I think W=AHF is a great one and has been extremely successful in raising this issue with people who were previously unaware.

a) of course it's batshit that it's now necessary to have debates about what a woman is. This is the point. People see this batshittery - the tras reaction to a simple statement of fact - and they investigate further.

b) W=AHF is our territory!

c) Yes the terminology is being used to undermine our safety and our rights. The law is made out of words. That's why it's so important.

I'm not sure why you think 'we have lost most of our audience' - that's not what I'm seeing at all.

Twistables · 26/12/2019 10:50

How about
truth matters

NonnyMouse1337 · 26/12/2019 10:51

Ooh! Ohh! The hashtag by Helmetbymidnight gave me an idea..

Do - Defy Stereotypes (with a green tick)
Don't - Deny Biology (with a red cross)

Hmmm bit clunky that Hmm

Helmetbymidnight · 26/12/2019 10:52

something like that would be good Grin

xxyzz · 26/12/2019 10:52

ValancyRedfern - the problem is, I don't think that AHF or LDHP do cut through.

I think they lead people who know nothing about the debate and are inclined to be sceptical of organised feminism to think we're as batshit crazy as TRAs are. Like why are we wasting time discussing something that is so self-evidently true??

When what I think we're really fighting about isn't the definition of women or lesbians, which in reality TRAs know perfectly well, but the use of these definitions in real life ie to open up all female-only spaces to men and to deny women hard-fought-for rights.

So I feel we should be fighting back on the real issues, which don't sound batshit because they're not. And which average people can quickly grasp - that women are losing their spaces, that child safeguarding is being attacked etc.

It's why I think the campaign about women's sports is particularly successful - because even people with no interest in feminism at all can get the idea of fairness in sport. And because the visuals of huge hulking male bodies standing next to/hitting female bodies makes the point very immediately and better than any slogan.

Which brings me to another, related point - we need to use more pictures. TRAs may currently have better slogans, but we have far better pictures. Grin

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terfsandwich · 26/12/2019 10:54

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terfsandwich · 26/12/2019 10:55

To make it clear to the holiday mods I am referring here to TRANSGENDER IDEOLOGY

Twistables · 26/12/2019 10:56

I agree with everything the OP is saying about slogans and images and language. How about
Truth is kind
Language is important
Gender dysphoria is real and gender dysphoria needs therapeutic support

xxyzz · 26/12/2019 10:56

Helmetbymidnight

Surely "#we're all born in the right body"?

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