Liverpool Women's hospital no longer has female toilets

[Themyscira]

I just read this on twitter - the Women's hospital in Liverpool has removed all female toilets and changed them to gender neutral toilets. All the men's toilets have remained the same.

This has been confirmed by hospital staff.

twitter.com/LiverpoolReSis1/status/1208734283885666306?s=19

Fusion I don’t disagree with you. But this might have been in response to a trans man. Was bound to happen sooner or later. They might have thought it was better to make the female loos with more cubicles acceptable to a trans man rather than send them into what would essentially still be men’s toilets with urinals.

Not saying I agree with it. I’m fairly sure women patients will still have access to private toilets.

*on the wards. Yes they’ve gone for the easy option haven’t they. I do agree it’s done the wrong way round.

If it's all cubicles, does it matter?

They might have thought it was better to make the female loos with more cubicles acceptable to a trans man rather than send them into what would essentially still be men’s toilets with urinals.

It seems strange to inconvenience the vast, vast majority of their patients for the sake of transmen, who must be no more than a small fraction of 1% of their patient base.

This thread is full of women saying that it matters FFS. Read the fucking room.

If it's all cubicles, does it matter

Yes, it matters......

If single sex spaces were not important, we wouldn't have them. Why is it so important for trans women to use women's facilities? It can only be to maintain the illusion of 'identity'. Women don't 'identify' as woman. They just are.

If it 's all cubicles, does it matter
There are cubicles in the men's toilets, so why does it matter there then?

The question that they can NEVER answer...

They might have thought it was better to make the female loos with more cubicles acceptable to a trans man rather than send them into what would essentially still be men’s toilets with urinals.

But trans men are men aren't they? That's what they keep telling us. So why wouldn't they want to use the men's loos?

If it doesn't matter they should have made the men's toilets mixed sex.

the toilets are all single occupancy and open directly onto the corridors

If this is the case, what the problem? Most cares etc have just one toilet available for costumers, which can be used for either sex.

We're not talking cubicles leading off from a shared washbasin area here (Which would be an entirely different matter), if the above is the case

I asked a transman on reddit which toilets they preferred to use. at first they were most put out that i even asked then said that they either used a unisex if they could find it or waited til they got home. they didn't feel safe using a male toilet oh the irony.

Sara my understanding is it's old school toilets

Otherwise changing the signs on the ladies but not the men's makes even less sense.

The reason old school blocks of women's are being changed to unisex while old school men's are not is presumably because of urinals. So people are thinking oh we need some men and women can use cos of trans/non binary, ladies only has cubicles change that.

This has happend at a lot of places.

They aren't thinking at all about
This means men have twice as much provision as women when it should be the other way around
This means men still have privacy from opposite sex while women don't
Dignity and safety of women

But that's par for the course really.

Update from hospital on their website

Gender neutral toilets at Liverpool Women’s
We are aware of some inaccurate information being circulated on social media regarding the Trust’s patient and visitor toilets.

As an inclusive organisation that respects equality and diversity, in early December 2019, the Trust converted ONE female patient/visitor toilet facility in the main reception area into a gender neutral toilet.

Gender neutral toilets benefit many patients and visitors who come through our doors who may need to be accompanied by a friend or family member of the opposite sex including; people with disabilities, the elderly, and children.

To clarify, these recent changes relate to ONE female toilet facility in the main reception area that was converted to a gender neutral toilet and the decision to convert a female toilet rather than a male toilet was simply because we did not feel it appropriate to have male urinals in the same space as single cubicles. The gender neutral toilet offers three separate cubicles for privacy.

Please note there are still a number of separate female and male toilets in the main reception area and around the hospital site on all floors to give people a choice. The nearest separate female toilet is 30 metres away from the gender neutral toilet. Clinical areas operate separate male and female toilets and are not affected by any of these changes.

23 December 2019

In other words, women get less provision than men, because it's cheaper and easier. Too bad if it's more inconvenient for you.

'the decision to convert a female toilet rather than a male toilet was simply because we did not feel it appropriate to have male urinals in the same space as single cubicles'

Not appropriate for women to go in while men are using urinals. Appropriate for men to use the ladies.

'The gender neutral toilet offers three separate cubicles for privacy'

Old school toilets block not single enclosed toilets with basins etc.

'
The nearest separate female toilet is 30 metres away from the gender neutral toilet.'

Not that near if you're on crutches/heavily pregnant etc.

Bastards.

So the men in that part of hosp do get double the provision and if women don't want to share with men they literally need to take a hike. In a women's hosp. Where many will have mobility issues (I was v slow moving at 42 weeks!).

I am really pissed of about this.
Do they really genuinely believe this is reasonable?

Will they see what actually happens, whether women and girls use them as much as they used to?

I can imagine some mums would feel need to get up and go with eg an 8yo girl if there are men in there, or take the hike with them irrespective of mobility, rather than send them in on own.

(Cue people saying oh boys go in the gents so why not have little girls going in old school toilets blocks on their own with boys and men).

decision to convert a female toilet rather than a male toilet was simply because we did not feel it appropriate to have male urinals in the same space as single cubicles.

Screen the urinals or remove them. Problem solved.

The gender neutral toilet offers three separate cubicles for privacy.

Cubicles are not actually private. They provides visual screening of toilet users from honest, good-faith people. They do not grant privacy from malicious peeping toms.

Please note there are still a number of separate female and male toilets in the main reception area and around the hospital site on all floors to give people a choice. The nearest separate female toilet is 30 metres away from the gender neutral toilet. Clinical areas operate separate male and female toilets and are not affected by any of these changes

Some sense...thankfully!

Some sense...thankfully

But why not just call them 'unisex' - if that is what they are? Most people will not have a clue what a 'gender neutral' toilet is.

There are gender neutral toilets at a refurbished leisure centre I use.

All sparkly & new & compliant with building regs etc.

Last week I opened a cubicle door on a bloke having a piss without locking the door.

It's what some men do.

Yes indeed.

Have they thought to put signs like this up (I saw the other week)

Interesting Fraggling. Not a sign that was ever needed in the ladies, funnily enough.

Yep