Help end medical misogyny. Sign our petition.

Help end medical misogyny.
Sign our petition.

Sign the petition

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Maya lost - can it be true?

729 replies

OhHolyJesus · 18/12/2019 19:38

I'm not saying it is true - Twitter isn't known for being wedded to truth...anyone able to shed light? I thought the verdict wasn't due for a while...

twitter.com/boysvswomen/status/1207379435684585474

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
DetroitDReindeer · 20/12/2019 13:16

I'm trying to keep my head down. Last thing I need or want is media. I'm keeping myself safe. No other fucker will

theflushedzebra · 20/12/2019 13:24

I'm really disgusted to hear that about Warren. That is a real betrayal.

I can see women having to fight for female spaces all over again from a grassroots level - non reliant on any govt funding - because govt funding means you're beholden to their whims. But fines as well? They actually want to make it impossible for women to escape to a genuinely female space?

This is not about trans rights at all - this is about the control of women. And it seems there are plenty of Aunt Lydias willing to go along with it.

AutumnRose1 · 20/12/2019 13:28

Detroit not suggesting you go to the media - just wondered if people read about it or if it is something that many people would be shocked to hear.

DetroitDReindeer · 20/12/2019 13:36

My experience is that at least in my part of the world my GC views are shocking. Twaw is absolute and accepted. The media would not dare or find interest.

Any dissent is crushed. Liberal fem Central. Away from the bubble, in less woke swathes of land...I guess there might be some shock.

AutumnRose1 · 20/12/2019 13:38

Detroit It's shocking how quickly things have changed. This problem is a worldwide epidemic. What a mess.

DetroitDReindeer · 20/12/2019 13:47

Hip, young, edgy, sex related. It's partly fashion I think. But I'm old. Social media spreads it like a contagion. Noone wanted to be square when I was young. It's all tied in with the anime craze for unreality, fantasy, escape. People feel wrong, discontent, like they always did. They are being sold that these feelings of malcontent are gender related and fixable by buying into a hip sexy concept.

The dysphoria is at a dystopian capitalist society where people work and work just to survive I think. The poor are really suffering. It's a need for more out of life which is being misarticulated.

GrinitchSpinach · 20/12/2019 13:59

The dysphoria is at a dystopian capitalist society where people work and work just to survive I think. The poor are really suffering. It's a need for more out of life which is being misarticulated.

Well said.

AutumnRose1 · 20/12/2019 14:12

Detroit I think you should be paid to write about this stuff.

pallisers · 20/12/2019 15:51

My experience is that at least in my part of the world my GC views are shocking. Twaw is absolute and accepted. The media would not dare or find interest.

I'm in the northeast US and this is exactly true. I no longer speak to my daughters about this as it is too upsetting. Of course no one actually deep down believes TWAW - my ultra-woke professor BIL wouldn't even consider dating or kissing a TW but believes TWAW. and doesn't see the disconnect. Sometimes I feel I am back in the 16th century where people were put to death for not accepting transubstantiation.

AutumnRose1 · 20/12/2019 15:59

I used to dream of living in America.

Thelnebriati · 20/12/2019 16:01

I used to dream of living in Canada! You couldn't pay me to visit there now.

ferretface · 20/12/2019 16:04

Sorry if it's discussed earlier in thread - is Maya appealing?

I want to donate to the crowdfunder if she is.

MyMajesty · 20/12/2019 16:50

This is from Maya's update on crowd justice :

I am reviewing the judgment closely with my legal team who believe that it is flawed. We will give a further update when this review is complete.

LangCleg · 20/12/2019 16:50

My experience is that at least in my part of the world my GC views are shocking.

Wow. That's really upset me.

ferretface · 20/12/2019 17:13

Thankyou MyMajesty :)

KingBobra · 20/12/2019 17:17

Someone upthread already asked this, but I can't see an answer -

If Justice Knowles heard the case, how come the ruling has come from Employment Judge J Tayler? Is that just how it works?

GrinitchSpinach · 20/12/2019 17:23

King, it was Tayler who heard Maya’s case and Knowles who heard Harry’s. They happened so close to together I got them mixed up at first!

KingBobra · 20/12/2019 17:28

Ohhhhh... thank you. I just remember Knowles sounding very sensible, I couldn't figure out how that came to this... But that would explain it.

KingBobra · 20/12/2019 17:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KingBobra · 20/12/2019 17:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AutumnRose1 · 20/12/2019 18:33

I can’t remember how long I’ve been concerned about this

Is it 3 years?

I just had my 81 year old mother on the phone saying “how can this problem be getting worse? I thought it would be over by now”.

MoleSmokes · 20/12/2019 23:29

WeGoHigher

"I've just read this about a street harasser. The man won on appeal. (Bear with me on this, it's relevant.)

www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/20/rotterdam-street-harassment-catcall-court-appeal

Here's an interesting bit from the article:

The court found that such interference in the right to freedom of expression under article 10 of the European convention of human rights had not been justified.

Men cannot in theory have more rights than women (see for example: Equality Act 2010) but yet that is how it appears to be playing out across the board, from tribunals to appeal courts, from England to the Netherlands.

Harry Miller could still win, of course."

I cannot work out from that Guardian article whether or not that court case in the Netherlands is a good result for freedom of speech or not. It seems to rest on there being a "Get out Jail Free Card" on the basis that if you are unfamiliar with what the locals consider "offensive" AND unable to express yourself in the local language that it is OK to "gesture" something that would otherwise be deemed "harassment" if spoken.

So, by analogy, if that same guy in the Netherlands had shouted, "Man!" after a trans woman in the street he would be bang-to-rights but if he had done the "Little Finger Dinkie-Penis" gesture then he would have been off the hook?

Have I got that right??

Extract from the Guardian article cited:

"The law states it is forbidden to jeer at someone else or others on or along the road or in a building accessible to the public, or to harass another person or others with offensive language, gestures, sounds or behaviour.

"However, the court of appeal in The Hague found that the man should not have been convicted for any of his behaviour in July 2018, for which he had been ordered to pay a €170 fine or spend three nights in jail.

The court acquitted him for both comments and actions and argued there was “no reason to distinguish between purely verbal expressions, verbal expressions supported by gestures or behaviours, or mere opinions expressed by gestures or other behaviours”.

It also said the scope of the bylaw was “very large” and it was not clear the statements and gestures were “evidently offensive and that the persons to whom they are addressed are thereby harassed”.

The court’s ruling added: “In the Netherlands there is a multicultural society and in, among other things, the municipality of Rotterdam there is a strong multicultural community life in which not everyone has a good command of the Dutch language or is familiar with culturally determined behaviour.”

The judges said: “Citizens who, for whatever reason, cannot (sufficiently) express themselves through (the Dutch) language, must be able to (partly) use gestures.”

The court found that such interference in the right to freedom of expression under article 10 of the European convention of human rights had not been justified."

Skidzer · 20/12/2019 23:37

What does this mean from her statement?

This judgment removes women’s rights and the right to freedom of belief and speech. It gives judicial licence for women and men who speak up for objective truth and clear debate to be subject to aggression, bullying, no platforming and economic punishment.

MoleSmokes · 21/12/2019 00:21

That this sort of thing is now considered acceptable:

bannedbytrans.wordpress.com

SpeedyMe · 21/12/2019 08:26

NC for this.

Saw a picture of Clair Quentin on the JK thread and recognised them. I knew them reasonably well (professionally) in their previous incarnation.

That has really thrown me.

Gosh.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.