Maya lost - can it be true?

[OhHolyJesus]

I'm not saying it is true - Twitter isn't known for being wedded to truth...anyone able to shed light? I thought the verdict wasn't due for a while...

twitter.com/boysvswomen/status/1207379435684585474

I do not accept the Claimant's contention that the Gender Recognition Act produces a mere legal fiction.

So does the judge know that a transman - if eldest child of a peer - is NOT a man for the purpose of inheriting a title? The judge seems not to realise that in the case of inherited titles, a GRA is a "mere legal fiction."

Hours later and I am still angry on your behalf, Maya. I hope you challenge this. I will find a spade and help you dig! We're all behind you. This poor, shitty judgement can not stand.

I too have woken through the night feeling an enormous sense of dread about this judgment. It makes no sense.

Well it males perfect sense, if you think certain things which were not supposed to think about our judiciary.

What about all the people who also state humans can't change sex who have been pulled up by their employer, Beetles, Jonny Best, Moody etc? What about the rest of us? Can we all be fired?

And of course, Maya, more digging goes without saying.

I'm sure I read somewhere on here that the judiciary have been stonewalled undergone the same diversity training that other institutions have.

This is the result.

None of these legal cases are going to produce good case law until it is established what a man or a woman is.

The judgement refers, in essence, to the expression of a gender critical belief as being hostile to the dignity of a transperson and hurtful without considering whether the hurt felt by a transperson is reasonable. I could argue that I find the belief that certain religions condemn me to hell as a non believer harmful but given that I don't believe there is a hell, how can my hurt be real or reasonable ? Maya is being held to account by the Judge for not being nice enough.

Similarly, if I want to argue that I've been discriminated against as a Christian, I must first satisfy the court that I am actually a Christian. How do we do that if there is not an accepted basis for determining what a Christian is ?

If a transwoman is going to argue that they are discriminated against, how are they going to prove their trans status ? If a transwoman is going to argue that there is scientific evidence , then surely they need to provide evidence that they personally fit within those scientific parameters, whatever they may be ? Otherwise we're back to woman being a feeling or simply a belief itself with no sound, measurable or demonstrable traits.

Employment tribunals have a tendency towards the left and identity politics. Their judgements are frequently appealed and over ruled. Until there is a case taken to the Supreme Court the fight isn't over.

I'm so gutted about this judgement: holding a view that is actually protected by the Equalities Act - that women are adult human females ...

I don’t know the UK system - can you appeal an Employment Tribunal case to the Supreme Court? If so, Maya I am here to dig.

This is important, and most of all for women who are marginalised or disadvantaged.

even if it violates their dignity and/or creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment.

This person is obviously in an intimidating, hostile environment.

Who wouldn't choose to use alternative pronouns as a courtesy?

I wouldn't dare to risk causing intimidation to such a person. And now they can back up the hostilities with the law.

www.gov.uk/appeal-employment-appeal-tribunal

You can appeal on various grounds.

Horrified. Maya, thank you. Totally understand if you have had enough, but will get spade out if you appeal.

If this shit continues, I am going to self ID as a man and will encourage all females I know to do so as well. I'm going to call myself a nice neutral name and continue to use female spaces and I'll have the added bonus of having more rights than a biological women and can sprout complete crap in any situation without the fear of being sacked, plus I get a pay rise!

I genuinely think lots of women need to do this to get the sunlight shone on this madness.

This is so devastating. Don't know what to say but wanted to add my support to Maya. I am speechless and scared.

As others have said TWAW full stop, end of story. No difference at all.
Until they want more rights than non trans women. Then TWATW.

I am encouraged by Maya’s use of the phrases “for now” and “this round” which suggests she’s up for an appeal. I only have a small trowel but it’s at Maya’s service if she needs it.

It’s the only encouragement I can find right now.

But to our friendly celebrating monitors, just be aware of one thing: this judgement has made a lot of women very angry. You have no idea what a lot of very angry women are capable of when they are motivated by a desire - no, a need - to protect their rights. But you’re about to find out.

Second that @OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg. This has made an awful lot of women incredibly angry. It's stirred up a hornets nest.

It's judgments like this which endanger the Human Rights Act and our membership of the European Court of Human Rights.

Which are already firmly in the cross hairs of some politicians.

Gregor calls women TF and ct but for women to use “he” rather than “they” when describing Gregor is a hostile act?

I was about to say that 2b.

It's one of the rules of misogyny writ large, in a legal judgement. Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

This is a deeply disturbing development- very scary. Definitely ready for more spadework if Maya has the energy and courage to go forward. Wouldn't blame her a bit if she didn't though. I glanced at the Telegraph article linked above and although it WAS only a glance, I suspect that if you didn't know the background it would sound to be a fairly reasonable judgement. Which is very scary. Thank you Maya for getting this far.

Sorry I haven't had time to read the whole thread but Maya, if you're on here or following then thank you for your courage and your dignity. You really are an inspiration.

I am going to keep my other thoughts strictly to myself, although are they even safe in my head I wonder?

On a most serious note, remember these Judges are self selecting. So let's look at Judge James Tayler. He's listed as a "Diversity and Community Relations" Judge. So, he's already self-selected and put himself forward for an area which is focused on diversity and community relations. His brief, I would think, is to promote diversity and encourage community relations in his judgments

So the judge who is committed to diversity and community relations selected himself to take this case Impartial, objective, not remotely influenced by the lobby group as can be seen by his repeated use of assigned at birth

Human Rights Barrister going to be on R4 after 8.30 discussing case according to tweet from Justin Webb

From the judgement

Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. The exercise of these freedoms may be subject to such formalities as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety for the prevention of disorder or crime

In what way is a belief in biological sex inimical to national security? Or public safety? How does it threaten disorder or crime?

Oh and this is how we end up with elected judges...

That judgment is woeful. It doesn't even make sense!

I'm so sorry Maya. Just exhausting and demoralising but if you want to appeal, i will do everything in my power to support you

I accept that the Claimant genuinely holds the view that sex is biological and immutable.Even though she has come to this belief recently, she is fixed in it and appears to be becoming more so

Came to this view recently?