Anna from Warwickshire are you here? You're awesome!

[Jenala]

I know there's lot of mention of this on other threads but I just want to say Anna, if you're here (I feel like you must be), bravo! Your questions were great and you spoke so smoothly. No hesitation or umms and arrs.

My heart was beating out of my chest just asking some gentle questions at some transgender training at work recently so I guess I'm not difficult to impress but still. Good job

That driving license photo has proved my point. A beautiful feminine woman, through and through.

To be fair to the people who "misgender" my DH he definitely looks more feminine than that!

Butch lesbians definitely do sometimes get challenged, but I thought Anna's answer to that was brilliant too, something along the lines of that's because you've put the onus of safeguarding back on individual women rather than having systems in place, so of course we're going to be more vigilant.

I’m curious to know if any visually GNC MNers (or acquaintances) of the XX sort have been challenged in this way.

My butch lesbian daughter moved from the country where I live (Scandinavia with self-ID) to England.

Occasionally women here would look twice as she went into toilets.

In the UK, she says nobody has batted an eyelid.

So she noticed the difference, which suggests that it’s actually more normalised over there.

Anyone who listened to that and still wants to vote LibDem is a few sandwiches short of a picnic.
However, if Anna was leader of the LibDems she may well get my vote.

Anna from Warwickshire is a star. I know some of the Safe Schools Alliance in Warwickshire have done great work in challenging the local authority's guidance on trans pupils, so it wouldn't surprise me if she's involved there.

I haven't heard the interview, but from reading the transcript it's quite noticeable that Anna's questions are much more focused and direct than those of actual BBC journalists. Don't get me wrong - Emily Maitlis, Justin Webb and Emma Barnett all did a good job, but Anna really drove home the point magnificently, using specific examples that Jo Swinson couldn't answer.

I can see that's an interpretation ahagwearsapointySantahat.

But I still think she meant men.

If she was referring to actual women but just trying to avoid potentially homophobic language, why would she refer to 'women who might be women who look more masculine' ? They ARE women.

If she meant actual natal women, she'd have said 'women who look more masculine'.

Even if I agreed with Jo on any of the issues she was so flustered and so totally unprepared for questions that it should have been obvious would come up. I said this on another thread but again - Prime Minister's Question Time, how would she cope?

Surely anyone can tell that Danielle is a lady?

Well Layla Moran could just take a glance and see into Danielle’s soul, but I would like to hear Swinson’s advice for those of us not so psychically endowed.

Anna's questions are much more focused and direct than those of actual BBC journalists.
Agreed. Anna should interview all the candidates, and I don’t mean just the UK ones. Please could we borrow her across the pond and have her put the “what is a woman?” question to Warren, Biden, and co?

For what it’s worth, my bonehead local MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle also trotted out the lesbian domestic abuser line when I asked him about the refuges. It’s a standard TRA trope that gets trotted out every time DV refuges are brought up.

Lloyd Russell-Moyle

LibDem? Tory? Sorry but the Poshy McPosh name made me giggle and then I went, wait, is this person Labour? FFS

Anna for PM!!

If she was referring to actual women but just trying to avoid potentially homophobic language, why would she refer to 'women who might be women who look more masculine' ?

I honestly think that's just her brain being addled by constantly having to avoid using words that might offend some men. I doubt she even knew herself what she was trying to say.

It must be like trying to speak a second language that you're not fluent in, so you have to translate everything in your head before speaking.

This whole debacle makes me so angry. Women's spaces are not a playground for any Tom, Dick or Harry to use as a backdrop to their fantasy, or to 'test out' their passing, or even to simply pee.

Being a man doesn't mean you have to stop being your 'true' self when in the company of other men.

Christ, if they just exuded a bit of confidence in their form of manhood, then they would get by just fine.

Given that the LibDems are fully signed up to Self ID, aka the perverts' charter, you would think that JS would have been clued up.

Agreed, Anna for PM.

JS is just so ineffectual. What a shame.

I'm not Layla Moran, I can't see into people's minds or souls!

But I think suddenly talking about, or trying not to talk about, poor butch lesbians who she claims are being given a difficult time just doesn't fit with what else she was saying or where she's coming from.

• she's not bothered about women with a masculine appearance being challenged, it's all about the men

- she was NAMALTing, 'these men in women's loos, they're just washing their hands, they're not predatory'

Lloyd Russell Moyle (My former MP, I moved) is a nincompoop. He spent many ££ of taxpayers cash on bulletproofing his house.
You're not that special love.

This is the best bit:

"under self-ID, what's to stop a male sex offender walking into the changing rooms and saying, d'you know what, today I identify a woman - as a woman? Should we be kind and let him?"

It's so difficult to communicate the whole being-forced-to-be-kind thing without extensive ground-laying but Anna pulled it off.

Another voice in the chorus saying thank you and well done Anna. How refreshing and uplifting to hear your incisive questions.

Yay, go Anna, whoever you are! If you identify yourself (pun intended) you may be in with a shot at the inaugeral Magdalen Berns Memorial Awards

The blathering about masculine looking women - was she saying they're more likely to be challenged now?

I hope she meant men and not butch lesbians, after she's insinuated that we're dangerous abusers who misuse our ownership of ovaries to stalk women in refuges.
I've noticed no difference in the amount of homophobia I am faced with, if that's what she was pretending to be concerned about. Except of course when the leader of a political party basically called me a man.

I honestly think JS was referring to men here. The way she hesitates in saying 'people who are - um - women who might be women who look more masculine' who haven't been challenged before. She was making this point in the context of predatory behaviour and I think was trying to say that she knows of men who have been using the women's loos and they shouldn't be assumed to be predatory

I assumed she was referring to butch lesbians. Saying that us nasty feminists are now causing lesbians who might look a bit like men to be challenged by nasty feminists. But Jo, don't we all know we're women & don't we all know a woman when we see one

I think butch women need to take her to task on this. It's not as though only lesbians fall into this characteristic - i've met plenty of straight and bisexual butch women over the years. That's how far we had come before this nonsense began: women of all sexualities were sticking two fingers up at femininity.