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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Lush has fallen

239 replies

WomanBornNotWorn · 30/11/2019 11:21

One more shop to walk past

m.facebook.com/events/1490182737818126?acontext=%7B%22ref%22%3A%223%22%2C%22action_history%22%3A%22null%22%7D&aref=3

Lush has fallen
OP posts:
OhHolyJesus · 01/12/2019 07:36

@seantheheretic I agree, I didn't find them very good value for money either. I've since found many cheaper, palm oil and plastic free alternatives but I can't list them all here. Hope you have found what you need.

ASimpleLampoon · 01/12/2019 08:01

@Gardai

If I were trans, I would not want to discuss anything to do with trans issues on Mumsnet. There are mumsnet members who are so anti trans, they refer to their stance in their user names. This indicates to me that there are people here who are members of mumsnet to push a single issue. the site has been targeted with people who have an agenda, and it has mostly worked.

Trans people would not stick around for very long, since these people who are here only one reason are here specifically to abuse them.

Effectively trans people are shut down from mumsnet, and anti trans agitators are given free reign.

Pityparty4one · 01/12/2019 08:17

Asimple

I have been on MN for around 6 years and in that time I have seen 1000s of trans posts very few which express hatred of trans people the majority are concerned with female rights, safety and children.

There are trans people who post on here and have done for years so clearly trans people do stick around.

As for abuse I am afraid you will need to expand on that because it seems abuse of trans people can be me saying I believe humans cannot change sex.

Is it anti trans to say males are not female?
Is it anti trans to say males should not compete in female sports?
Is it anti trans to express concern that children are not receiving the correct support and are encouraged to make life changing decisions?
Is it anti trans to point out the aggression and violence directed at women from trans rights supporters?

DickKerrLadies · 01/12/2019 08:23

This indicates to me that there are people here who are members of mumsnet to push a single issue.

There's loads of people on MN like that. It's a big site. But many of the posters on FWR post all over MN, on a range of topics. In FWR, the people who come to push a single issue tend to be the people who openly admit on twitter to trolling us.

And as I've said many times, if people think the posters on FWR are abusive, they haven't spent enough time in AIBU.

hallohallohallo · 01/12/2019 08:38

Customers were encouraged to kiss the staffs body to leave a lipstick print...which was of coursed abused by some men.

Shock Well that's me gone now. I did like one of their Christmas scents, but from what I've been reading recently Lush isn't as ethical as they appear and they are far too pushy with their views which ironically seem to largely go against what I would have imagined would have been their targert customer group (women).

Goodbye Lush!

T0tallyFuckedUpFamily · 01/12/2019 08:51

There will always be posters like ASimpleLampoon, who will pop up to warn posters away from FWR and try to encourage them to woke sites. There are also those that have FWR under full time surveillance, that will swoop in to deter curious posters, but I’m really confused about how placid they think these posters are. They must think that by shouting transphobe and saying that FWR equals bad women, the new posters will run away.

I’d would certainly advise new posters to read what trans people say, especially on twitter. However I would recommend that they read up on the issues on FWR first, so they're going onto Twitter with a grounding in how trans ‘rights’ is being pushed at the expense of women’s rights, dignity and safety.

P.s lush is a misogynistic stinking cesspool that treats female staff in particular as if they own them.

littlecabbage · 01/12/2019 09:01

@puds11

Welcome to the FWR boards. I see that you have already been directed to the useful Break It Down For Me thread.

I also see that ASimpleLampoon is trying to paint the women here as "anti-trans" or "transphobic", which is simply not true. None of us wish any harm to people who genuinely have dysphoria - a condition where they feel that their is something seriously wrong with their healthy body. But we do not share their belief that a person can be born into the wrong body.

Unfortunately, any empathy that women here used to have for these "old school transsexuals" (those with genuine dysphoria) has been taken advantage of by the many males who now fall under the "trans umbrella". This is a definition created by Stonewall, the LGBT lobby group (who seem to be mainly trans-focussed now), and includes anyone who crossdresses. This means that "autogynephiles" (men who dress in female clothing because it sexually excites them) are now classified as "transgender".

There are many, many issues relating to the concerns of gender-critical women when it comes to transgenderism, but to summarise three of the main ones:

  1. Trans rights groups are lobbying hard to remove female-only spaces. These are actually protected by the Equality Act 2010, but companies all over the UK are being coerced into allowing any male who simply states that he "identifies as a woman" that day to enter these spaces. The problem with this is that you cannot tell who is one of the tiny percentage of men with genuine dysphoria, and who is a sexual predator.

Male rapists have been allowed into women's prisons, and sexually assaulted female inmates. Sexual offences by men against women have drastically increased in mixed-sex changing rooms. Men have been allowed to share rooms with women in rape crisis centres. There are many further examples on these boards.

  1. Men are taking away positions that should be for women. Google Pips Bunce, a male who swings between dressing as male one day and female the next, who won an award for "top women in business". Men are entering women's sports and taking their titles. Google Rachel Mckinnon, a transgender cyclist who won the women's masters track cycling world championships, or Maxine Blythin, a transgender cricketer playing on a women's team in Kent.

  2. Children are being taught that they can "be born in the wrong body", and referred to begin puberty-blocking drugs and then cross-sex hormones, with very little exploration of why they may be feeling uncomfortable with their bodies. Many of these children are actually gay, autistic or have a history of sexual abuse, and these issues are not being investigated.

These children are being offered medication and surgery that will have lifelong effects, and will effectively sterilise them, with very little long term research into the consequences.

There is so much more I could write, but I would encourage you to keep reading these FWR threads, and make up your own mind. I suspect you will be come as horrified by the whole thing as the rest of us. Please keep asking questions - we want to expose this ideology for the danger it poses to women and children.

puds11 · 01/12/2019 09:41

Thank you @littlecabbage this is very informative. I have a lot to learn! I did see the information about the prison rape on a board yesterday and was shocked by both the situation and having missed the information in the news.

Can I ask more about your view on people not being able to be born into the wrong body? This is one of the terms I hear a lot as to why trans people undergo transition.

I do feel the relative ease with which children are allowed to transition is scary. I can’t help but think there will be regrets later down the line.

I’ll have a look into the names you have mentioned here. This is very illuminating!

Thank you to all who have responded, I really appreciate it.

Pityparty4one · 01/12/2019 10:00

Can I ask more about your view on people not being able to be born into the wrong body?

I know you didn't direct this at me but I would like to answer.

How can you be born in the wrong body unless you believe in souls?
My cousin has cerebral pasly I am sure she has wanted to be born in the wrong body but in truth it's her body whether it should be or not does not matter.

We are trying to teach the next generation about acceptance of others but it seems when it comes to trans people we ignore acceptence of themselves and run with the whole "oh yes your body is wrong let's take drugs and have surgery to correct your wrong body".
I believe being trans is not a body issue it is an issue with the mind and like any other form of mental health issue it is the mind that needs support and treatment not the body.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 01/12/2019 10:12

Lush went waayyyy way ago.

Cuteypye · 01/12/2019 10:26

@littlecabbage Thank you for that information, I too have a lot to learn.

I don’t think I can say I’m boycotting Lush over things like this, because that could imply I used to use their products! Like ScrimshawTheSecond I can’t make it past the “industrial strength perfume barrier.”

Rather than being Lush, it should be renamed Boaking.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 01/12/2019 10:53

This and the police promo that was supposed the be publicising undercover police having relationships with unsuspecting women - but it looked like an horribly anti police statement.

If I want to buy soap I want to buy soap... not get a bloody dogma rammed down my throat.

Body shop don’t support stonewall any more (just sayin).

And their staff are way over aggressive and stuff stinks - dyes your bath and once even dyed DS blue. Don’t get me started on the glitter in your...

WomanBornNotWorn · 01/12/2019 10:56

puds11

So much of what I've read suggests that trans people may be dealing with some deep PTSD such as abuse and internalised homophobia, leading them to reject themselves in pursuit of an impossible new identity.

Having autism seems to play a role too - a child who found social interaction difficult might find their body changing, bits hurting, producing 'stuff', getting baffling and unwanted looks, comments and touches is the thing that sends them over the edge.

My view is that enabling a troubled mind to damage a healthy body is the wrong path.

Guiding and supporting the troubled mind to healing and accepting their physical reality is to me the way to go.

I think parents, teachers, and the medical profession would be best working together to explore the cause rather than facilitate the effect, and help that understanding, education and healing process to happen.

OP posts:
LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 01/12/2019 10:58

Promoting press stories isn’t the way then. Additional support via charities - but then stonewall has had an income of £72m over the past 20 years and mermaids coins it in. Isn’t that enough?

And this is a PR promo in itself. Pushing the absolutism of twaw.

KatvonHostileExtremist · 01/12/2019 11:05

Mumsnet has its uses, and can be a good resource, but for some reason hatred towards trans people is allowed (and to autistic/people with asperger's too, but that's a whole other thread)

Oh that's a new accusation. Hatred towards people with ASD? Do start a thread. I'd say the opposite actually but I'm very keen to see the "evidence"

🐂💩

SmallCalpolFiend · 01/12/2019 11:33

I just want to echo what @ASimpleLampoon has said, as I think a lot of people on this site are at best misinformed when it comes to trans issues. I would be careful about taking what is said here at face value.

For example, there are a number of things stated above that I don't believe are true:

  • Stonewall don't classify anyone who cross-dresses as trans
  • Trans groups aren't lobbying to remove female-only spaces
  • It's not that easy for children to get medical help to transition, or even delay puberty

And in the meantime:

  • Trans young people are overwhelmingly likely to self-harm, and something like 40% have attempted suicide
  • Trans people often do display high levels of mental illness, but these often decrease significantly when they are supported and accepted
  • Trans women are at a higher risk of abuse, including sexual abuse, than other women are

I imagine that what I've said might be quite contentious to a number of people here, but if you're someone who's looking for information, then perhaps bear in mind that what you'll usually see here will be very much an extreme end of opinion. Maybe read a bit wider if you want to have a more balanced view.

PanicAndRun · 01/12/2019 11:36

Bullshit

T0tallyFuckedUpFamily · 01/12/2019 11:45

SmallCalpolFiend of course you’re going to provide the links to the evidence to back up all your —lies— comments.

SmallCalpolFiend · 01/12/2019 11:52

@T0tallyFuckedUpFamily

Nope. Mostly because the things I'm refuting don't have links to the evidence either. And the point I'm making is that you shouldn't believe all that you read on Mumsnet, and you should do your own reading elsewhere. If people do that and I'm telling "lies", then they'll find that out.

T0tallyFuckedUpFamily · 01/12/2019 11:55

So there’s no evidence then? Thought so.

7Worfs · 01/12/2019 12:02

Re the ‘born in the wrong body’ thing -

anorexics also believe there is something wrong with their body, but no one is encouraging them to keep extreme dieting and offering them NHS-funded liposuction!

littlbrowndog · 01/12/2019 12:05

How are TW at higher risk of abuse than women ?

2 women are murdered every week

86000 sexual assaults every year if I rember

1 rape every day in Uk schools

The 40% suicide statistics has been debunked as not credible

Why would you want to stop puberty in children. It’s so important
The drugs used to stop it are untested for that usage

koshkat · 01/12/2019 12:12

Calpol you have just proven that you understand very little about what is happening here.

Just because you do not believe it does not mean that it is not true.

koshkat · 01/12/2019 12:13

Trans women are at a higher risk of abuse, including sexual abuse, than other women are

'Other women'? Transwomen are men who think that they are women. Women are women. HTH.

DickKerrLadies · 01/12/2019 12:18

- Stonewall don't classify anyone who cross-dresses as trans

LMGTFY

From the Stonewall website www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/glossary-terms

Trans

An umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.

Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois.