Dammit, just read the Plaid Cymru manifesto and now I have no-one to vote for

[Littlecloud19]

I'm in Wales and had been hoping I could vote Plaid Cymru, whose manifesto contains excellent statements and policies to support women.
But, like the other political parties, they don't actually know what a woman is, and have undermined all the positive steps they'd take with this:
"Plaid Cymru will support the reform of the Gender Recognition Act to
introduce a streamlined, de-medicalised process. We will support efforts to reform the Equality Act to include ‘gender identity’ as a protected characteristic and to remove the use of the terms ‘gender reassignment’ and ‘transsexual’ from the Act."
I'm afraid mine is going to be a spoiled ballot paper, with "Woman = Adult Human Female" written on it.

Anyways I’m off to work, will catch up on this thread later.

If my DC wanted to transition, id want the process to be a lot more rigorous than them just saying so and being able to access dangerous drugs and surgery.

being able to access dangerous drugs and surgery.

Ironically I’m off to dispense some of these drugs to my lovely trans patients. Laters.

f one of your daughters wanted to transition would you not want them to be legally protected from discrimination and able to identify as they wished?

A lot of us don't share your world view. We don't believe that gender is a property of individuals, we think it's a social structure designed to oppress women, we think you should be able to express your personality in any way you want without pretending to change sex, and we don't think that you can be born in the wrong body. Some of us (including me) have kids who have wanted to "change sex" or have experienced that ourselves.

Does Plaid Cymru definitely support self ID?

This is their manifesto and I can't find any mention of it

d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/plaid2016/pages/7962/attachments/original/1557734498/Plaid_Cymru_-_European_Manifesto_2019.pdf?1557734498

They did support it in their 2017 manifesto and I've seen reports saying they support it again, but I think the reports have been looking at the 2017 version

So possibly not relevant now ?
Oh and re my daughters being able to “identify as they wish” . I know an under 18 girl who has just had her breasts removed. So no. I do not want my daughters to buy into regressive, misogynistic, homophobic trans ideology.

If they use a male space they risk being assaulted

Why is this, @JPharm?

If they use a male space they risk being assaulted,

By males. Yet apparently we're not more at risk when males are let into our spaces because there's laws to deal with that.

They may see it more as using the space they feel most comfortable in

So it's about validation?

If they use a male space they risk being assaulted

And if males are allowed into female spaces the females are then at heightened risk of assault.

If males (trans or otherwise) use a female space then females risk being assaulted.

How come this is considered a solution? It's basically saying that it matters less if women are assaulted than if males are assaulted.

.

The diagram above might save us all some time.

Jadefinch - that document you linked to is for the European elections earlier this year.

downloads2.dodsmonitoring.com/downloads/Misc_Files/Plaid%20Cymru%20Maniffesto%202019_ENGLISH_DIGITAL.pdf

This is the manifesto for the GE. The relevant section is on page 39.

OP I'm with you - I was slowly beginning to think that a vote for PC would be the least-worst option but bearing in mind my current PC MP has never even bothered to acknowledge the emails I've sent on this subject, and reading what I have now in the manifesto, with not even an independent candidate I can vote for, I shall be spoiling my vote for the first time ever. I can't in all conscience vote for any of them.

Ironically I’m off to dispense some of these drugs to my lovely trans patients. Laters.

Ah, knew it. Vested interest. It is always the same, isn't it? When someone comes and lectures women to be nice to those poor transwomen and what could go wrong, there is always an ulterior motive.

Well, guess what, so do I. My elderly mum, my teen daughters, my friends, nieces, sister in laws, I could go on. We do not want to give up our existing rights.

Thanks, Tinsel, yes that's it clearly laid out.

@sanluca I was thinking the same.
Just counselling people isn't going to make money for drug companies and pharmacists.

**If they use a male space they risk being assaulted'

So your answer to the risk of male violence is to subject women and girls to a higher risk of the same violence?? What most people on here are worried about is the idea of men being able to walk into women' spaces, completely unchallenged because they say they're trans. If their word is all that's required, who is anyone else to judge them for not looking like a woman? Isn't it what's inside that counts?

Also, I find it very interesting that you say that the answer to all of this is to improve justice and conviction rates. Well if that's all it takes, why then do you not think that's enough for women, but not good enough for trans people using the facilities of their birth sex eh? It's because deep down, you recognise that these kind of risks will never be dealt with properly by the law......but you would rather women & girls shoulder the consequences.

@JPharm See above

I would contact the candidates themselves. Hopefully there may be a gender critical one amongst them that you could support it they come back to you with a clear enough position.

I don’t mind sharing spaces at all, I use a family changing room at the swimming pool gender neutral toilets at work, it causes me no problems.

It's not all about you though. I do mind, it does cause me problems. Pretty big ones. And there is objective evidence that unisex loos, etc, are linked to an increased number of sexual assaults so having single sex loos does actually prevent assaults whatever your thoughts on the matter. At the moment, if a man walks into a female loo, you can alert staff and have him removed. If those spaces are for anyone to enter, there's nothing you can do about it.

If one of your daughters wanted to transition would you not want them to be legally protected from discrimination and able to identify as they wished?

If I had a daughter who wanted to transition it would be highly likely they either had autism or were a victim of sexual assault or that they had other significant mental health problems. And so whilst of course I wouldn't want them to face discrimination, I'd want them to get really good medical help over and above 'being able to identify as they wished.' I don't think this neoliberal trend towards being whoever you want to be regardless of your physical reality is at all healthy for individuals or society as a whole.

Also I can't bear this idea that if you are raped and your rapist is convicted, everything is ok. That is just so profoundly offensive. There is nowhere near enough support for victims and often the fallout will be lifelong.

Ironically I’m off to dispense some of these drugs to my lovely trans patients

Drugs that you don't know won't cause serious medical problems decades down the line, right?

Ah, knew it. Vested interest

No it’s literally my job. I dispense prescriptions in accordance with the specialists wishes. It is not my place to judge based on that individuals health care choice.

I’m never in a million years going to look at prescription and not dispense it based on my own individual beliefs, I would be a terrible pharmacist if I did.

isn't going to make money for drug companies and pharmacists.

Of all the directions I saw this thread taking I didn’t expect ‘big pharma conspiracy’, that’s for the anti-vaxxers.

I see the enforcer nuns of the new religion are out and about today.

Definitely some cages have been rattled. I'm beginning to look at the Labour manifesto in a much more positive light! How little it takes: just a lukewarm offer of compromise.