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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Body positive book for toddlers!

287 replies

WomanBornNotWorn · 26/11/2019 12:19

Great idea - helping small children

mobile.twitter.com/Transgendertrd/status/1199056010520023040

Body positive book for toddlers!
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6
JanesKettle · 06/12/2019 20:53

I don't really feel much empathy for a lot of those parents. Sure, it's tough to think for yourself, look into the disorder and treatment youself, make decisions yourself in the best interests of your child, stand up against health professionals and other parents, risk being called a bigot...

But that's parenting, isn't it ? It's not a walk in the park. Parents who come down on the side of Mermaids style 'but my gay, feminine child will kill himself if we don't trans him and make everything right by telling the world he's a girl', well, they haven't really done any real research, they are refusing to look at their own homophobic assumptions, they are choosing to collaborate in immense psychological, social and physical harm.

So if they are feeling a bit sad that their cognitive dissonance is being challenged (and imagine it gets triggered by a children's picture book, saying nothing remotely radical), I'm afraid my reaction is a bit of shrug.

Those parents are happy to soak up the martydom points and approval that comes from having a trans child, and they are also very, very happy to throw parents like me under the bus.

They actively do harm to the rest of us, who are trying to keep our children from being hyrt by gender ideology and gender proponents.

So really, why waste time on people kicking off because of a picture book ? And how despicable do people have to be to attack a children's author and a children's illustrator ? Of all the harms being perpetrated on earth at the moment, and people want to whinge and defame people who wrote a sweet book for kids....shame on them.

(Idk, I figured if other posters could be triggered for multiple pages, I could too! It really pisses me off when people attack artists. Did they break the law ? Did they hurt anyone ? No. They wrote words and drew pictures, ffs)

VMisaMarshmallow · 06/12/2019 20:59

MrsFiona I’m not surprised that would be the case, pain clinics all over tend to offer support groups and psychological therapies as ways to cope with chronic pain. That said though it often depends on the underlying reason for pain. One of the common causes, that include those who fall into the catagory who would likely have some benefit from self care, social support, validation/understanding type interventions, is chronic pain resulting from a previous injury. One thing that happens when our bodies experience pain is that our nerves at the area of pain fragment off, so effectively increase senstivity to experiencing pain. At the same time the receptors in our brain that pick up on pain increase as we experience it, so again increase sensitivity to feeling pain. So the underlying injury can heal with the correct treatment but a person is left with chronic pain because now their nervous system is wired up to feel pain more easily, even though there is no longer an injury. It’s a bit like how stress sensitises a person until they experience anxiety or stress over normal every day things because their brain has became so heightened to picking up on it, like hyper vigilance. It’s why people in pain should always take their prescribed pain meds because interrupting the pain signals before chronic pain becomes set in is important. This is also the group that after the injury is resolved are less likely to benefit from long term pain meds and have better response to the likes of low dose anti depressants for pain, and show the best response to support groups, cbt/mindfulness etc for managing pain long term. (Speaking generally here of course and I’m paraphrasing my many pain clinic consultants over the yrs).

Then there’s those of us who have underlying conditions that cause pain due to disability or illness. We may experience the above also but often advice for our pain management differs, specifically related to our conditions. I have elher danlos syndrome (and a fuck tone of other disabilities and health problems, but I’m not playing top trumps). When I am injured (dislocated, sublaxed or partially dislocated, or soft tissue injuries around this) the advice is straight to bed, up my opiates to oxy or diamorphine and Valium ontop (as well as my usual pregabilin). My rheumatologists always emphasis strongly to get the pain under control first as experiencing pain switches off core muscles and leaves me at risk of further dislocation due to not moving carefully enough. Then I go down to usual codine again instead and started back on tiny physio moves from bed, to careful Pilates in the house, to building up to hydrotherapy then careful weights at my gym. Getting the drugs right makes it more possible to move with ‘less’ pain and enables careful exercise which builds muscle and ‘reduces’ the risk of dislocation. (I used to sneeze and dislocated several joints, now I’ve built up to mostly just sublaxing and being able to care for my kids multiple disabilities around this, which is a huge improvement even though the reality is taking 20-40 odd tablets in a day (adhd meds, sleeping meds, side effects meds and so on too). I have chronic pain too, and then a lot of the physical symptoms like digestive problems/hemoraging problems that come with pain also (although I don’t have the worst ones of heart problems which I’m hugely greatful for). So when I’m functioning at my usual something like care, support, some pampering and human contact helps some, but couldn’t come close to cutting it when injured. I’m aware eds is by no means the worst of painful disabilities (although the way my drs seem happy to throw serious controlled drugs at me you’d think it was. I’m a walking pharmacy most days).

Anyways, not meaning to me rail this, or be woe is me, but I wanted to say I appreciate your point, and that you’re correct that support and care and social contact are approaches that help with plenty who suffer pain, and that despite it being a fair bit more complicated for plenty of us I welcome your contribution to the thread. I would think the point of a book about accepting our bodies for a child experiencing long term pain would be a similar understanding compassionate and soothing approach, so rather than the kid being told to try harder, get over it, suck it up etc would be a care giver encouraging them to be kind to themselves when they experience pain and to take some soothing time out doing something that makes them feel good with friends, like maybe sensory toys and a singing game. I would see that idea of accepting our bodies as they are and not seeing them as wrong or blaming them as a beneficial idea that can be adapted for kids with disabilities also, and I don’t think the message of accepting our bodies in general terms needs to be specified only for kids with disabilities (or kids from differing ethnic backgrounds) for those kids to benefit from that general message, and/or from being visable in a book about that, even if not directly about disabilities.

JanesKettle · 06/12/2019 21:03

Do people know that genderists like Clara are defaming Rooney and seeking to stop her employment in schools as a poet ?

littlbrowndog · 06/12/2019 21:09

Seen it janes.

But then Clara uses terf blocker so I was blocked. Just like that

Silence the dissension.

Silence women

Shut us up in case we say something you don’t want us to say or to be heard.

Shut us up. Be silent

JanesKettle · 06/12/2019 21:09

Genderists on Twitter: 'loving your body isn't a solution to gender dysphoria'.

f*ckwits. If they bothered listening to any of the women who have detransitioned, or who found ways to deal with dysphoria without transitioning, they would hear that a common thread is radical acceptance of the body you are in.

That might not look like 'love' as 'love' is sold to us, as happy butterflies and endless good feelings, but radical acceptance is a very deep, very authentic form of love.

pombear · 06/12/2019 21:12

JanesKettle I hear you. And you should be able to be pissed off here. Many of us are, on your behalf.

Like you say, parenting is not a walk in the park. And sometimes parents make decisions that aren't always great. And if you get stuck in that decision-track, I would guess it's hard to get back out.

There are lots of factors that determine whether you're a JanesKettle type parent, or one that blindly follows the Mermaids path.

But nothing excuses their attack on a fellow author/illustrator, and I hope you didn't take that from my post.

My natural response would be much more than a shrug but the eggshell floor we walk on here in FWR is crunchy. I hope my post didn't increase your pissed-off-ness, but if so, I apologise.

JanesKettle · 06/12/2019 21:15

littlbrowndog

I can't bear it. That so many people are invested in attacking, not only the book (that most of them haven't read) but the writer herself.

I can only hope that Ahlberg is not receiving the same amount of abuse.

Rooney is a non-neurotypical woman, with a non-neurotypical child, who has worked with non-neurotypical children for much of her working life. Why can these women trying to make her unemployable not extend the grace to Rooney that they demand for themselves, and assume that the book is a response to concerns Rooney has about the messages children (including autistic children) are hearing and internalizing ?

How is it possible that to be on the side of body positivity, of acceptance of neuro-diversity, of art can be punished in this way ?

littlbrowndog · 06/12/2019 21:18

I know janes. Been watching it on twitter.

I can see how distressing it is for her and I saw that she never imagined the terrible shite she had thrown at her

Yeah punished is the word for writing a lovely book

Just just unbelievable it’s almos5 barbaric

JanesKettle · 06/12/2019 21:20

pombear

No. I don't object to other people having and expressing feelings of empathy, at all. I just personally don't have much.

I don't think I've been blessed with any parenting super-powers, though. Every single parent who listens to their gut and has an ounce of courage can see through this contagion. That doesn't mean their child won't transition, it doesn't mean there will be a happy ending. But I know too many ordinary yet brave parents to think that blind acceptance, when your child has GD, is the only thing possible for most of us.

I did not at all think you were excusing their attack on a writer. It's actually unexcusable, though the whole Hebdo thing taught me that many people will excuse the unexcusable - not an assumption I made about your from your post, however.

Just expressing frustration, really. Doing the wrong thing, on the wrong thread. Doing what I told hooves off for doing.

I just can't bear that women are attacking Rooney. I can't.

littlbrowndog · 06/12/2019 21:22

All good janes. Why not. That’s what we are here for.

No rules here. Well apartn from the MN’s rules.

You care you ar3 a mum. Caring for your child 💪💪💪💪

JanesKettle · 06/12/2019 21:25

I can see how distressing it is for her

We live in a world where it's OK for people to attack the reputation and livelihood of an autistic woman, who has devoted her life to art and to children, because she wrote a book that doesn't fit in with their religious world view.

I don't know Rooney, except online, and I am sure, like all the other strong women out there, she will get through this, but I am so tired of people hounding women for doing nothing other than expressing their views. Hounding them. So many vicious commentators out there, shilling for the The Man.

JanesKettle · 06/12/2019 21:26

Thanks littlbrowndog

Gonna go make a cup of tea and get offline, I think.

pombear · 06/12/2019 21:28

Janes not the wrong thing, or the wrong thread at all. This thread is about supporting a book that supports parents in a fight against a dangerous, extremist point of view that encourages children to disassociate from their body and reality.

Echoing littl you're caring for your child. (I don't have that emoji so a Star for you too).

Your frustration is understandable, and many of us are here to catch it as well as we can here on FWR for you, and turn it into action in the real world to support you and your child.

JanesKettle · 06/12/2019 21:45

many of us are here to catch it as well as we can here on FWR for you, and turn it into action in the real world

I know. And I know that women here are doing that for Rooney too. And I appreciate this oasis of solidarity and sanity.

I told hooves off for crashing a celebration, and now I'm like the patron who had too much to drink and is sobbing and gesticulating wildly in a corner (I have been to too many book launches!) so taking myself home for a lie down and I think about what else I can do, besides ordering in her books, for Rooney.

rodgmum · 06/12/2019 21:45

I’m the mother of a 14 year old daughter who recently announced she is actually a boy. I accept that there are parents who think that positive affirmation is the right route for their child but I hate how they attack us.

I suspect many of these parents didn’t realise there is any support for any other route when their child said they identified as the opposite sex. When I first went onto Google, ALL the suggestions were Mermaids and ilk. It took an awful lot of looking before I found one website for parents questioning positive affirmation and then through that I eventually found online support via Twitter etc.

We are bombarded by positive affirmation. Schools push it. The NHS pushes it. Politicians push it. Other parents push it. It an be next to impossible to find a therapist who does not positively affirm. We can be demonised and called child abusers for not wanting to go down that route. We have to stay anonymous online for fear of our children being outed. It’s a completely abnormal situation to be in for what is a very complex and sensitive topic.

I think the tweets condemning Rooney are absolutely abhorrent, particularly the ones questioning whether she should be allowed in schools and the ones from school librarians who are stating they won’t stock the book. I hope most schools do stock it and the issue gets discussed because the more publicity it gets, hopefully the more people will realise there are other options to automatic positive affirmation.

ScrimshawTheSecond · 06/12/2019 21:54

I was at least heartened to see a couple of other children's authors chime in to support Rachel.

I really think someone only attacks a person like that when they are knee-jerk reacting on the massively defensive. It's clearly wrong, whatever you think of Rooney's work, to try and get her blacklisted like this.

Then again, there is always the Streisand effect. In the long run, nine times out of ten, calls for a book to be 'banned' are the best marketing campaign possible.

LangCleg · 06/12/2019 22:18

The best thing we can do, when we've got a spare fiver, is to get this book out there in as many places as possible. It's an investment in the next generation.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 06/12/2019 22:27

(Hugs), Janes. Everyone has moments where it gets to them. It's only when someone does it on every thread that people start to get annoyed. The pressure you're under is immense and we all appreciate you and the other mothers of kids who're in the firing line for doing your best to protect them.

pombear · 06/12/2019 22:46

Lang Definitely, there are a few of my fivers' worth sitting waiting to be distributed right now.

Rogd and Janes and all other parents, many of us are here to surround you with Lang's same virtual hug.

I tried to play out that conversation in my head with the 'transphobic terrorism' twitterers:

Genderists: This is a terrible book, it tells children that your body is yours, it's a wonderful thing.

Many of us here: OK, so what would you rather tell children?

Genderists: That sometimes you're born into the wrong body. That body is 'wrong'. God, or your brain, or your essenceful soul, got it wrong. But we can fix that

Many of us here: Erm, OK. So is that just for sex-based reasons, the god, brain, soul thing made a mistake? No other reasons, not race, age, or, I don't know, species mistake?

Genderists: Yep. Just sex. That's the only category that god/brain/soul got it wrong. We just need to move along now, affirm the sex-mistake, medicalise the problem by halting that child's puberty with drugs that we don't have much evidence-base to prescribe for this group, bring them into affirming support groups that tell them that this is all normal, tell them and their parents that suicide is likely if they don't go down this route, even if the stats don't add up

Many of us here: Hmm

pombear · 06/12/2019 22:54

Genderists: Oh, by the way, those adult males who identify as women, but say they don't need a medicalised path to identify as the other sex, well...ignore them, well don't, because they're also trans, but not trans like our children, but they are, but they're not quite like our kids, but they are, but they aren't.

As JanesKettle said, once you spend five minutes looking into this, you can see through it.

And now I'm derailing too.

Rachel, Jessica - this book is lovely. Don't let the bastards grind you down. Smile

pombear · 06/12/2019 23:05

Kittens's hug - FFS, Friday typing!

Agrona · 07/12/2019 01:13

Slight derail, sorry, but "Being Born in the Wrong Body" line is a horrible thing to say.

I'm shocked that some activist group is not considering the impact of these words on people born with debilitating conditions which cannot be fixed by medicine or surgery.

GirlDownUnder · 07/12/2019 03:09

VMisaMarshmallow

Just wanted to acknowledge your post. Flowers Brew

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 07/12/2019 09:27

Been thinking about this overnight. I have

hEDS I dislocate multiple joints on a regular basis. I have a heart problem, reactive hypoglycemia and POTS as a result so can't eat any carbs or sugar and need multiple joint replacements as constant dislocation has worn them out.

I have crohns disease and inflammatory arthritis caused by the Crohn's. I have arthritis in my hands, wrists, feet, shoulders and spine from this. I have to inject myself with immunosuppressants which make my hair fall out, wipe me out for 3 days a week with the side effects.

I take a cocktail of drugs every day to try and control the symptoms of these diseases, the pain and the side effects of the drugs I take. Pregabalin causes memory problems and the opiates affect my concentration. I have a spinal cord stimulator implanted into my spine to control some of the pain that I have to charge up for an hour everyday.

But - I'm expected to love and appreciate my body? Even better, if I just go and have a manicure my pain will go away and all will be well?

Can you not see how utterly disgusting what you are saying is? Why on earth should I love my body or care about it? I can't enjoy my life because every single second of it is spent being aware of what is wrong with me. I can't enjoy food because I have to watch what I eat and worry about the effects the food will have on me, am I near a toilet when the inevitable happens, can't eat at all if I need to travel afterwards, can't eat at work, can't stand for longer than 5 minutes or I faint (thanks pots) can't walk far or upstairs, can't do sports, can't do housework unless it's very light and can be broken into tiny chunks, I can't sit for more than 10 minutes so long car journeys or plane journeys are out of the question.

My list goes on and on. But just trot out your glib "love your body" as some panacea. Tell me why. Why should I love my body? What is there to love about it?

LangCleg · 07/12/2019 09:38

Kittens's hug - FFS, Friday typing!

I'm more than happy to provide hugs as well so your comment was fine!

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