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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Only consenting to receiving medical treatment from a female is not acceptable

999 replies

Siameasy · 23/11/2019 18:28

mobile.twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1198215833006362630

One NHS trust says it’s unacceptable for women to say they only consent to medical treatment from “natal females”. I find this completely outrageous and couldn’t find a thread on it already. Bloody hell!

OP posts:
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10
PlayYouLikeAShark · 02/12/2019 21:49

FFS. Excluding "whole swathes" of people from a woman's vagina isn't a good look? A woman gets the 1st, last, and every say on who does or doesn't get to treat her in respect of intimate health care. Anyone who compares a woman's right to bodily autonomy to social exclusion as though everyone but a TW gets an invite is off the chart bonkers. Seriously. It's not a fecking free for all that only TW get 'excluded' from.

Give yer heid a wobble, eh?

Michelleoftheresistance · 02/12/2019 21:49

I accept some would rather be treated by women. No problem with that, the reasons are nothing to do with me and I cannot possibly know the levels of trauma and distress any other human has gone through, or what certain situations trigger.

Agreed.

But this is saying, regardless of how a mtf presents, wishes to be known as, lives - they will always be a man.

How are you going to reconcile the two? Because this is the crunch point.

The debate is that the right to ask for a female hcp is being removed from all females. This will exclude some females from being willing or able to accept health care at all. This is a huge, huge problem for females.

Validation of the belief of male persons really isn't a justifiable reason to remove health care from some women.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 02/12/2019 21:50

I think a society supporting women in their right to exclude anyone they bloody well please from their vaginas would be an excellent look, and it's a shame ours currently isn't.

Michelleoftheresistance · 02/12/2019 21:51

you have firmly closed minds to OTHER females who do not

What?

No, the debate is about removing the right from all females to choose a female hcp if they want to.

Not about forcing all females to have female hcps.

Creepster · 02/12/2019 21:51

Were you able to type that entire 21:39:58 post out with a straight face, Bunny?

PurpleCrowbar · 02/12/2019 21:54

No, Bunny, it really is the issue.

I am happy with my current male gynae - he's great. (Not in the uk, different system).

If I decide I want to see a woman, that is my right.

Are you saying I should then a) go without treatment or b) hop into the stirrups & accept treatment from a beardy person with a willy who says he's a woman?

That IS what you seem to be arguing for. You're sure about that one?

Michelleoftheresistance · 02/12/2019 21:55

This really does boil down, every bloody time, to believing that women have no business withholding their body.

Lesbians being told they're 'gate keeping their vaginas'
Women being told they're excluding swathes of humanity if they won't let males do their smears and breast exams

Have you any idea what it is you're proposing here? Where on earth did you get this appallingly subordinate view of women? Your body isn't something other people get to use, and you are never, never doing anything wrong if you say no to someone looking at it, touching it, or doing anything to it you did not choose and are not completely happy with. Seriously. Have you ever thought of the Freedom Programme? Because you have some incredibly unhealthy views of your own boundaries and other people's, and you really don't have to live with them.

Kantastic · 02/12/2019 21:55

This goes beyond the right to be treated by same sex. That’s not the issue.

Yes it is the issue. Don't come here and tell us on a thread about our rights that our rights are not the issue. Stop trying to distract us with appeals to what MTF people want, as if what they want is more important than women's right to healthcare.

(I appreciate that you do, in fact, think that what MTF people want is more important than women's basic rights, but please try to just imagine being a woman, who cares about women. )

TowelNumber42 · 02/12/2019 21:58

But this is saying, regardless of how a mtf presents, wishes to be known as, lives - they will always be a man. Bloody hell, we’ve spent forever to escape outdated , generalised and stereotypical attitudes and judgements...

Well, exactly, yes. We have worked so hard to educate people that women can be good at maths, men can be nurses, a woman wearing trousers is OK, a man wearing eyeliner is OK, a man being a SAHP is OK, a woman going out to work is OK. Yet here we are with people saying if you meet the particular gender stereotypes of the opposite sex in your society then you can claim to be that sex.

Michelleoftheresistance · 02/12/2019 21:59

appeals to what MTF people want, as if what they want is more important than women's right to healthcare.

Again, if it helps, believing that you mustn't have boundaries about your body that make male people upset...… that's an incredibly unhealthy belief for any female person to hold. Incredibly.

MIdgebabe · 02/12/2019 22:03

Women's rights are human rights

The right not to be treated inhumanly which includes treatment that would cause you immense mental distress

Forcing women to be treated by someone who could trigger severe emotional distress is illegal

Kantastic · 02/12/2019 22:03

what does it "feel like" to be a woman - has anyone actually checked that what the transwomen feel like actually is what women feel like?

I've checked! I've read lots of stuff that has been written on MtF forums. I can confidently report back that the experience of being a woman and the experience of being a transwoman have almost precisely nothing in common. I couldn't identify with any of it. It was very alienating, in fact, but I'll refrain from commenting further.

MIdgebabe · 02/12/2019 22:06

It seems to be that anyone who is male can say they feel like you therefore they are like you

Whilst no one female can say I don't feel like you therefore I am not like you

Bunnyfuller · 02/12/2019 22:09

No. I have boundaries. But they don’t include refusing to accept a trans woman as a woman. I don’t think of them as a ‘beardy bloke’ - that’s bloody rude and nasty. You have an issue with trans, in that you insist to call them men! You don’t want to be treated by men, absolutely fine. But trans mtf don’t want to be seen as men. So you’re calling out the trans.

Say it how it is. You don’t want men in this scenario, and mtf are men. In your eyes. Therefore your choice is being removed. In your scenario a mtf trans is trans only in their own mind, to you they’ll always been men. I don’t want anyone’s boundaries violated, but...I accept trans mtf or ftm as they are. The NHS are saying it is wrong to refuse to accept trans as the gender they’re living as, and just treating them as men dressing up. Beardy men, Jesus.

Kantastic · 02/12/2019 22:09

Whilst no one female can say I don't feel like you therefore I am not like you

I think that's why there are so many nonbinaries around. Being surrounded by the MtF interpretation of "womanhood" and taking it seriously could bring on gender dysphoria for any female person. Who would want to be a woman if it means... that?

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 02/12/2019 22:12

If someone's path to societal recognition leads through someone else's unwilling body then maybe they need to find a different path.

DeeZastris · 02/12/2019 22:13

Transwomen are of the male sex.

Kantastic · 02/12/2019 22:14

Say it how it is. You don’t want men in this scenario, and mtf are men.

Oh great, they're getting it!

Therefore your choice is being removed.

YES EXACTLY

In your scenario a mtf trans is trans only in their own mind, to you they’ll always been men.

YES.

I don’t want anyone’s boundaries violated,

Oh my god, wonderful, amazing, Bunny's getting it, finally!

but...

FFS.

Birdsfoottrefoil · 02/12/2019 22:14

mtf trans is trans only in their own mind, to you they’ll always been men

Yep

TowelNumber42 · 02/12/2019 22:14

In your scenario a mtf trans is trans only in their own mind, to you they’ll always been men.

In what way are they trans other than in their own mind?

PurpleCrowbar · 02/12/2019 22:15

But that's exactly what we are saying, Bunny, I think.

No men imposed on women in a healthcare situation, irrespective of how they identify.

I reckon the beards are optional, like in Life of Brian.

Just - no males that women can't say no to.

Bunnyfuller · 02/12/2019 22:15

‘Theyre’ getting it?

Do you think I’m trans?!

StrangeLookingParasite · 02/12/2019 22:15

The issue is some will not accept a mtf trans woman as a woman.

No, I won't.

Bloody hell, we’ve spent forever to escape outdated , generalised and stereotypical attitudes and judgements...

And trans dogma puts us right back there, insisting that styles of clothing, shoes and hair are what make someone the sex they are.

Birdsfoottrefoil · 02/12/2019 22:16

Bunny what is a woman?

littlbrowndog · 02/12/2019 22:18

From twitter below

No.

My daughter is as entitled to say no to a penis-less man as to any man.

My sex is not 'the people without penises'
Female is not 'men, minus their genitalia'

Respect us.
We women are the opposite sex to you.

Do not expect us to surrender ANY of our boundaries to you.