Only consenting to receiving medical treatment from a female is not acceptable

[Siameasy]

mobile.twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1198215833006362630

One NHS trust says it’s unacceptable for women to say they only consent to medical treatment from “natal females”. I find this completely outrageous and couldn’t find a thread on it already. Bloody hell!

Read through all this and was largely unfazed by it all, really not bothered by men for examinations, sympathy for those that need choice etc.
Generally also fine with male midwife.The one thing that did get my hackles raised was the breastfeeding part. Having gone through extensive "squeezing" by midwives attempting to help me feed, just no and I think can genuinely say it is something that unless you've done it you know naff all about. But then apparently men are going to lactate soon so I guess they'll just know it all then - even more than now ;)

The message from the NHS that individuals are not allowed personal boundaries is just plain wrong.

It doesn't matter what they think of your boundary - it should be respected. That's the whole point of a boundary.

I think can genuinely say it is something that unless you've done it you know naff all about.

I agree with this but I think that it also applies to women who haven't breast fed either. I think it should be a pre requisite that breast feeding counsellors and midwives should have themselves successfully breast fed.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras totally agree. 99% sure most of them didn't have a clue. And as for the volunteers who stand and stare... shudder.

By that measure, all midwives should also have given birth. Which I also agree with.

Do we need to vet gay born-female lesbian HCPs out of intimate examinations too? Going by this logic they will find it equally titillating, no? (And no, I do not believe that).

This kind of retort is s homophobic. A lesbian woman..is a woman. The point here is sex, not sexuality. Lesbians always seem to get compared to males in these kind of conversation

It's been covered in the Mail on Sunday:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7742703/Women-hospital-patients-complain-having-biological-male-bed-risk-kicked-out.html

Not the same story - hospital wards rather than treatment, but the same principle.

Comparing a lesbian performing intimate procedures to a man is both offensive and just really thick. Go and read some statistics about male violence and sexual assault.

I've seen plenty of male nurses on wards. Are you suggesting they should be removed and how difficult this would be for the NHS?

I've seen plenty of male nurses on wards. Are you suggesting they should be removed and how difficult this would be for the NHS?

I can only hope you are being goady.

Women should have the right to request treatment by another woman. That is all. No one is saying that all male nurses and doctors should be removed but that some people prefer to have intimate examinations performed by people of the same sex and should retain the right to request that.

And hopefully my elderly dad could have intimate care done by a male should he so wish.

Jeez, I really can't believe some of the attitudes here. Modern medical care is predicated on consent and informed consent at that.
Taking people's food preferences into account is wasteful of resources. Unless a medical necessity patients should eat what their given, vegans should put up with whatever suits the majority, it's all just a fad anyway.
If you're not prepared to force a vegan to eat meat and dairy, how dare you demand a woman should stifle her feelings about receiving intimate care from a male.
Setting your own boundaries are fundamental to human rights particularly when we are placing ourselves at the mercy of strangers. Care means the focus is on the well being of the patient, otherwise it's not care. My body, my choice. Also this is paid for by my taxes.

I think breastfeeding counsellors have all breastfed. If it was a requirement for mws to have bf, we'd have even fewer mws than we do now

I’ve finally understood, and now get the nhs stance. I can accept that someone feels they’re in the wrong body, and genuinely feels, with all their being, they’re the opposite sex. I accept them as what they feel they are. The stance here is (or appears to be) ‘we do not accept the transition, they are male, they will always be male, and for a variety of reasons, we do not want a male involving in delivering (xyz) care. You refuse to accept that a mtf trans woman is a woman, and they will always be perceived as male.

Not so long ago same sex relationships were perceived as ‘abnormal’, as a ‘choice’, as an ‘unnatural insistence’.

We know that’s categorically wrong. It’s so wrong it’s abhorrent. It’s unaccepptable.

The nhs are looking at this under the same lens. No, it doesn’t recognise previous traumas, or preferences. But not so long ago people would refuse treatment from a black person, or an Asian person.

I wonder if this, in a few years time, will be looked at the same way. What if they find a genetic explanation?

I willl get slammed again. Oh well.

However much they feel they are in the wrong body, they cannot make their body change sex.
Homophobia is saying "That lesbian couple shouldn't bring up children".
Reality is saying " That lesbian couple can't have children without a male parent".
Transphobia is saying "No transwoman should be a health care professional".
Reality is saying: "I want a woman to do my pelvic floor examination and that doesn't include that transwoman".

You refuse to accept that a mtf trans woman is a woman, and they will always be perceived as male.

Got it in one.

And it’s nothing like same SEX relationships or black/Asian people. Don’t be so soft.

what if they find a genetic explanation
😂😂

Let’s just use the science we already have and not some magical unicorn type thinking.

Re breastfeeding - infant feeding peer supporters are there (and trained) to support all mothers and babies, however they feed. Everyone I know that is a peer supporter has breastfed.

(For what it's worth, I think everyone I know that was a peer supporter had also struggled to breastfeed, which was usually the impetus behind becoming a supporter.)

I accept and respect your belief that someone's inner feeling creates them and not their physical body.

I'd like you to accept and respect my belief that there are limits to how much someone can ask others to enable and support their beliefs when it clashes with their own beliefs, needs and best interests. Trans people aren't the only people with deep inner feelings, distresses and needs.

I feel like a really competent gynaecologist tonight, so I'd like a ward round, please.

Hang on a minute.

I have zero credentials for this beyond a biology o level, so it might be better not to take me at my word.

It doesn't matter if a male FEELS like a woman. He's not, & we should never expect women to submit to this.

& I say this as someone who has delivered 3 children, with decidedly dodgy high risk pregnancies, & the best midwife I had was a bloke. He was amazing.

Does that override other women's choice not to be, frankly, rummaged in by a male? No.

Consent is not given by other people. If a woman (or man) wants to see a same sex HCP then that is their RIGHT.

My lovely man midwife won't do if a female patient wants to see a woman. Someone male who identifies as a woman won't do, either.

It's not about 'oh how meeeeaaan'. The patient has the right to see a same sex practitioner.

& THAT is the end of it, or should be.

Still out of your depth here Bunny. Way out. The shore is a loooooong way back.

And there really is no need for the drama. 'Slammed' like 'silenced' and 'not allowed to have my opinion' and all the rest of it only means 'they disagreed with me and pointed out the issues with what I said'. It's the same thing again: people not validating your opinion aren't misbehaving or being mean. They are allowed to disagree, they have their own opinions and needs and issues they want you to hear. That's how interaction works outside of professional care relationships.

You refuse to accept that a mtf trans woman is a woman, and they will always be perceived as male.

Yes.

There other unverifiable beliefs I refuse to cooperate with, especially in a medical setting.

Homeopathy for example. Let's say the NHS decided that homeopaths deserve validation. Invalidating their beliefs is dreadfully hurtful to them. As a result a homeopath can give you the treatment they choose and you, the patient, have to accept this treatment so the homeopath doesn't feel their beliefs are being invalidated by you. Nope.

Also prayer. If you want to pray for me to get better because you believe your God can cure me, OK, go ahead. You tell me I can't have surgery because you've decided to pray for me instead. Nope. I don't care how much you believe Jesus will save me, I don't care that you are hurt that I don't share your belief. I will not sacrifice myself to validate your personal unverifiable beliefs.

I know people who believe allergies are a load of old tosh. I don't let them feed peanuts to my allergic child so they can feel validated (for the few seconds before anaphylaxis validates my knowledge).

Bunny if that were the case then all the nhs have succeeded in doing is change the meaning they ascribe to the word ‘woman’. They would not expect a transwoman to have a womb or ovaries. They would not expect them to produce their own oestrogen or have periods. They wouldn’t be surprised to find a prostrate. That is because they cannot change sex. Ultimately the only thing changing the meaning of words does is make it hard to communicate effectively and in a medical situation that is dangerous.