Only consenting to receiving medical treatment from a female is not acceptable

[Siameasy]

mobile.twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1198215833006362630

One NHS trust says it’s unacceptable for women to say they only consent to medical treatment from “natal females”. I find this completely outrageous and couldn’t find a thread on it already. Bloody hell!

saying you don’t accept transgender mtf as women

Have to say I'm a little bit amused that this was seemingly typed with the expectation that any of us would assure the poster that we do accept mtf as women. That's an "Aw, bless" moment right there...

Please do, ShesDressedInBlackAgain

Disclaimer: I don't even pretend to be a lawyer.

It's not as if you are a XY person in healthcare. So why do you care so much about what other women require when it's not costing you a dime, it's not impacting you to have whatever sex hcp you feel better with, it's simply not your problem.

Yes, it's very odd, isn't it? I mean, one could speculate as to reasons but that would be "uncivil". Only people who think women who don't want random males sticking things in our vaginas are unreasonable are allowed to be uncivil.

PROHIBITED CONDUCT UNDER THE EQUALITY ACT

3) Instructing, causing or inducing contraventions

A service provider is prohibited from instructing its staff to discriminate against, harass or victimise service users. Even if the staff ignore the instruction. Claims can be raised by patients affected by the unlawful policy or by staff who are expected to abide by it, if they have suffered a detriment.

These policies tell HCP to harass and victimise female patients. Staff also may be harassed and/or victimised if they do not follow these policies. These are detriments. See previous posts for examples.

ANY WOMAN SUBJECTED TO THIS TREATMENT HAS A CLAIM FOR INSTRUCTING, CAUSING OR INDUCING CONTRAVENTIONS

As well as PROHIBITED CONDUCT there are also DUTIES under the EA, primarily the public sector equality duty (PSED).

NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde have failed their PSED by publishing and implementing a policy in which they have not shown due regard to the needs of women and girls, and have not shown due regard to the need to take steps to meet the needs of female people that are different from* the needs of male people.

I haven't looked closely yet at the policy that has harassed and victimised Claire Dimyon but I bet a whole £1 that it does not show due regard for anything other than the feelings of male people.

*'taking steps' includes things like using a single sex exception.

Public Sector Equality Duty is here:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/149

Instructing, causing or inducing contraventions

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/111

Because this shouldn't be an echo chamber with only one view being expressed. Why shouldn't women with different views to yours be allowed to say what their view is? And secondly, I've not once said that all women should do X because that's what I choose, but someone has said on here that women should only have female hcps (?for intimate procedures though they didn't make that clear). So why don't I have the right to say that I don't want that, that I want the right for me to be able to choose from both and male hcps? Just as I don't get the right to choose for you, none of you should get the right to choose for me.

What utter disingenuous bullcrap.

Nobody's denying your right not to give a shit what HCP shoves what instrument up your fanny.

The proposal - by an NHS trust - is to deny other women the right to a same sex HCP. That's the discussion here.

Your opinion is either the same as ours - that's wrong. Or it's different to ours - the NHS trust is right to do this.

Which is it?

The idea that a bunch of women agreeing with each other and offering each other support is a problem that needs to be addressed is so telling. What a fascinating insight into the mindset of the kind of people who support "trans inclusion".

Meanwhile, lost in the thread ages ago, it becomes clear that some NHS policy is currently being dictated by a small number of people (some in particular, like Rowan Davis, who are unlikely to understand or have lived experience of the impact of females of their wokey policies).

So what can we do? We can write letters.

But also, every NHS organisation has some type of public participation/involvement/engagement group.

I'd suggest that as many of us who have time and capacity and energy get on those groups and feedback in a different way to the Trusts involved.

It may feel a bit awkward at first but, given the demographic make up of many of these involvement groups, they're most likely a) to not be aware of these types of new guidelines, and b_ will very quickly understand your concerns and support your feedback!

An opportunity to get involved directly, and help to influence decisions about care not just around women's health but lots of other areas.

So what can we do? We can write letters.

These policies are unlawful in several different ways. We need to be challenging them in court.

I'm a radiographer. Here is a tip card from my employer. We are expected to treat trans identifying patients as the sex they identify as. We are not allowed to record or reveal their natal sex.
Mammography is a female only post grad qualification. There is no shortage of female radiographers. Like nursing, it's a female heavy profession. Asking for a female radiographer is not an issue, there are much more of us than male ones.

So no male mammographers currently. But what happens when (it's only a matter of time imo) a male radiographer identifies as female? I really worry that they will be allowed because of their transgender status. After all, if patients must be treated as the opposite sex if the so wish, then its unfair to discriminate against staff wishing to do the same.

It's the thin end of the wedge but imo it's the next step. I will fight it all the way with my professional body, union etc but I really worry it will happen sooner rather than later.

Sorry for rubbish pics but I had to take these on the sly

The moment someone comes forward with a complaint we need a massive effort to rally behind her by other women. We've crowdfunded other campaigns, right? This is an important one.

Pencils I agree, but there's some ground-up stuff we can do too.

So many consultation groups and organisations out there within the NHS, wanting our views.

I'm off to bed, but considering starting a separate thread in the next few days to identify patient groups and feedback mechanisms where women might be already sitting on, or could get involved in, to feed back the concerns raised around this issue at a local level.

Hold on - it's late and I'm mad busy, but isn't radiography a part of the healthcare system in which it's rather important to be clear about the sex of the patient? WRT x-rays and such?

Has anyone spoken to Southhall Black Sisters about this? Many of the women they work with may have very strong views about the sex of the HCPs they're willing to see for intimate procedures, and it occurs to me that pressure from well established groups might be more effective than from individuals.

Floral it's ridiculous isn't it. Have only encountered trans patients twice. One was elderly and having a chest xray. Sex was not an issue. The second, quite recently, was having a head CT in a & e at night. Their sex was an issue. CT is a much higher dose of radiation than x ray. We must ascertain the pregnancy status of all females aaged 12-55 yrs old. For x ray we only require it for abdominal and pelvic images.

My male colleague that night phoned the on call radiologist saying what are we supposed to do about LMP (last menstrual period). Which, if we have to go along with the TWAW lie, we must ask them about. Radiologist said no you do not have to ask. But surely by not asking and recording this we are revealing their transgender status?

That patient had a head scan but what if they needed an abdopelvis? The reporting radiologist does not see the patient and only has the info provided by the referer. The report will have to include the fact that the patient is missing particular organs. It's an absolute nonsense!

In the interest of protecting themselves from liability they are willing to endanger the patients health. Females, regardless of their gender assignment, need screening and medical professionals being required to record and treat them as males is detrimental to their health.

Should have said both patients were male identifying as female.

CreepsterI totally agree. My profession and other HCP are being put in a ridiculous position in order to validate the feelings of a minority. That is potentially dangerous to those patients health. Patients should not have to validate their HCPs feelings

Absolutely pombear, but there is a limit to how long we can just keep asking politely for organisations to use the single sex exceptions, as if they are some 'nice to have' extra, when the end result of not using them is unlawful harassment.

It's not enough for an organisation to consult us. They also have to actually obey the law.

Yes we should be joining community engagement panels etc. but we should be joining with a clear, basic understanding of what the EA says about harassment and victimisation so we can challenge where necessary.

Sorry not sure if the last bit was clear. When HCPs must validate the feelings of trans patients it could potentially affect that patients health. In the situation where the HCP identifies as trans the patient should not have to validate the HCPs identity.

My male colleague that night phoned the on call radiologist saying what are we supposed to do about LMP (last menstrual period). Which, if we have to go along with the TWAW lie, we must ask them about.

And if you go along with the TMAM lie, you should not ask about LMP for a transman. Who could be pregnant, and whose baby would be endangered.

But surely by not asking and recording this we are revealing their transgender status?

And if you ask the transman and record this, you are also revealing their transgender status.

What kind of sick fucker writes policies that could endanger children in utero for the sake of "validation"?

Females, regardless of their gender assignment, need screening

And it's transmen, female people, who will die of cervical cancer because their medical records said "male" and they weren't invited for smears.

FFS, surely medicine is the one place where there has to be accurate recording of sex?

see that woman thinks she's a feminist, she thinks competing on the same level and being equal to men is the only thing women need but you come on here and see the real feminists that couldn't really give a shit about admitting men are generally physically stronger and what they really want is women to be respected in the workplace, home and society much more than they are now.

I think many of my female colleagues who disagree with me on self ID (mainly 20-30s with no kids yet see it like this. To say women are physically weaker is sexist in their eyes. women's needs deem They also like to use examples of female sex offenders to prove no difference between the sexes

the real feminists that couldn't really give a shit about admitting men are generally physically stronger

To say women are physically weaker is sexist in their eyes.

Your woke colleagues are fuckwits, and science is with me on this.
www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-gender-gap-in-sports-injuries-201512038708
www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2008/oct/26/women-sports-injuries
www.cs.amedd.army.mil/borden/FileDownloadpublic.aspx?docid=b42d1acd-0b32-4d26-8e22-4a518be998f7

You can't treat people fairly if you refuse to see the differences between people and how those differences affect them.